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Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 2



PolAmKrakow
4 May 2022  #931

@Atch
There will be a parade of dead Russians. It is what the Russian military has the most of.

mafketis
4 May 2022  #932

There are so many problems with doing a GM

Kamil Galeev puts the chances at about 20%. That's for declaring a general mobilization. In terms of actually carrying one out.... he says it's impossible since so much of the necessary infrastructure (human and institutional and physical) no longer exists due to stalled/conflicting reforms (and the accompanying embezzlement).

If anything an attempt at a general mobilization could destabilize the government....

(thread ongoing...).

what else Germany should do in his opinion

Interesting thread by Anders Ostland (Swedish living in Ukraine) on Steinmeier and Scholz acting like an offended liverwurst....

twitter.com/andersostlund/status/1521858999930568711

Tacitus
4 May 2022  #933

Interesting thread by Anders Ostland

His first posts are so full of lies and distortions that I stopped reading and that was just regarding the past. Still I would like to know what Germany is expected to provide in addition of what it already does.

Paulina
4 May 2022  #934

macabre doesn't even begin to sum it up.

This whole invasion is one big macabre and insanity... and Mariupol is one of the symbols of that... :(

Interesting thread by Anders Ostland (Swedish living in Ukraine) on Steinmeier and Scholz acting like an offended liverwurst....

Yes, those were my thoughts after Germans got offended that Ukrainians don't want Steinmeier in Ukraine:

"I urge the German leadership to start acting like adults and finally show some compassion."

But that was some time ago... What's the situation now?

In April FSB cars in Moscow region were set on fire, apparently:

twitter.com/DemeryUK/status/1510539030395596805?s=20&t=5Wmcvswp9uCuNV1a4SHGZw

jon357
4 May 2022  #935

Anders Ostland

He's one of the more credible voices about this war, though he does seem pretty sure about Putler's alleged forthcoming operation. I hope he's right.

and Mariupol is one of the symbols of that

A dead city, a wasteland. Like Warsaw after the germans did their deeds only without Praga, Mokotów and Źoliborz surviving. A symbol of sheer evil.

Tacitus
4 May 2022  #936

German leadership to start acting like adults and finally show some compassion

Compassion does not mean that you have to take every unjustified insult.

Crow
4 May 2022  #937

The response "Героям Слава!" (Glory to heroes!) came later and I guess it's more controversial, but I can't say it bothers me these days

I see. Europe nazify fast. Always was nazi but it coming to its culmination. Hysterical EU`s nazi crescendo.

I see God`s justice in it for Germans. Its not them who invented nazism. Western Europe, Vatican and USA only used Germany and will use it again. Problem is deeper.

Thank God if Russia solve problem.

Paulina
4 May 2022  #938

Russian attack on Azovstal is ongoing. According to a Polish general the world community has sentenced the people in Azovstal to death. Besides the whinging of politicians nothing has been done:

wiadomosci.wp.pl/na-azowstal-leca-bomby-spolecznosc-miedzynarodowa-skazala-ich-na-zaglade-6765260361079584a

Turkish ships could've been sent to evacuate these people - according to him they wouldn't get attacked.

Btw, out of those 10 buses that evacuated civillians from Azovstal before the latest Russian attack only 3 reached Ukrainian-controlled territory. Nobody knows what happened to the rest. What about the UN and the International Red Cross? Weren't they with them? I wrote that I hope they won't leave them alone until they're going to be safe, but it looks like noone was making sure that they will reach safety :(((

Compassion does not mean that you have to take every unjustified insult.

But that "insult" was justified. Understanding that would be a sign of compassion and... well... a sign of having some empathy and understanding of the situation.

Europe nazify fast. Always was nazi but it coming to nits culmination.

No, you're writing about RuSSia.

Crnogorac3
4 May 2022  #939

Azovstal, footage published by the DPR's Ministry of the Interior this morning.

twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1521820784859172864

CAPTURED CANADIAN: Retired General Trevor Kadier Has Been Arrested By Russian Forces. He Was In Charge Of A Ukrainian-Based US-Sponsored Biolab

voltairenet.org/article216731.html

He will be taken for a walk on the 9th of May.

:)

twitter.com/Levi_godman/status/1521796177838157825

"From May 4, 2022, the decoration of vehicles with the flag of Ukraine is suspended," the mayor's office stressed.

This decision was made by the mayor's office of the Polish capital due to numerous requests from disgruntled citizens.


👍

Crow
4 May 2022  #940

No, you're writing about RuSSia.

Russia only responded to NATO advance and suffering of pro-Russia populace in the nazified Ukraine.

jon357
4 May 2022  #941

But that "insult" was justified

There's a good article here. It doesn't mince words. Somewhat conservative but essentially sound.
" They manage to accept that Russia is the aggressor, but claim: "Even legitimate resistance to an aggressor is at some point an intolerable disproportion."
" the men, and it is mostly men, who smelled cheap gas, lavish and debauched oligarch lifestyles and trade surpluses swelling larger than their stomachs"
thecritic.co.uk/its-time-to-burst-the-red-balloons/

Tacitus
4 May 2022  #942

But that "insult" was justified

It really wasn't. Steinmeier was wrong about Putin and Russia. But he also invested significant efforts into finding a peaceful solution to the Ukraine crisis. He and Merkel did so at the direct request of the Ukrainian president. Villifying him now like the journalist quoted above is just uncalled for and unfair towards the country he presents as president.

Crnogorac3
4 May 2022  #943

Z

🇷🇺 Graffiti in Volgograd.
t.me/intelslava/27814

A beautiful postcard from former Stalingrad. Is there any way to somehow send it to those sufferers in the gloomy catacombs of Azovstal and to make their lives more beautiful, at least for a moment, with these cheerful spring colors.

;)

mafketis
4 May 2022  #944

But he also invested significant efforts into finding a peaceful solution to the Ukraine crisis.

Such as....

Cojestdocholery
4 May 2022  #945

Villifying him now like the journalist quoted above is just uncalled for and unfair towards the country he presents as president.
@ Tacitus

German newletters are very expirenced in doing that to others. Now that the boot is on the other foot you call it unfair. Very narrow one sided point of view!

jon357
4 May 2022  #946

A fascinating thread about Vladolf Putler's realistic options. The writer says that he can't go "full Syria".
twitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1521756516650524675

German newletters are very expirenced in doing that to others

Anyone would think they're the victim here, as if it's offensive to them not to get their own way.

Crnogorac3
4 May 2022  #947

🇸🇰🇺🇦 In Slovakia, someone painted banners with Ukrainian flags with the letters Z.

t.me/intelslava/27836

:D

Russian attack on Azovstal is ongoing.

Bombardment of Azovstal

youtu.be/24B1d6h1-FA

A little bit more of Azovstal...

youtu.be/iIOfRG7lXGQ

Tacitus
4 May 2022  #948

Such as

Visiting Kiev during the Maidan Revolution and then years of diplomacy after Minsk II.

Very narrow one sided point of view!

Hardly. It is a fact that Germany misjudged Putin's Russia, something it has in common with other Western countries. Yet it also invested significant effort into trying to help Ukraine, while countries like the USA and the UK had at times governments that completely disregarded Ukraine. But somehow it is now all Berlin that "betrayed" Kiev.

Paulina
4 May 2022  #949

This decision was made by the mayor's office of the Polish capital due to numerous requests from disgruntled citizens.

It wasn't given as the reason for this by the city. And it isn't about all vehicles, but only about Warsaw city public buses, which were decorated with Ukrainian flags since the beginning of Russian invasion on Ukraine as a sign of solidarity with Ukraine.

According to Polish law public buses can be decorated with Poland's and the city's flag during state holidays. I think the president of the city can decide about decorating them with another flag in some special circumstances, but I'm not sure. The mayor decided that buses won't be decorated with Ukrainian flag on ordinary days anymore:

warszawa.naszemiasto.pl/ukrainskie-flagi-zniknely-z-pojazdow-komunikacji-miejskiej/ar/c1-8801521

uncalled for

I disagree. Ukrainians didn't want him there and it's understandable. Mistakes have consequences. German mistakes turned out to be very tragic for Ukraine. Saying "I'm sorry" isn't enough in this situation, imho. It's just words that won't bring people back to life.

I think the reason for that harsh reaction from that Swede is the way Germans behaved after it turned out that Steinmeier wasn't welcomed in Ukraine. They've shown lack of understanding of the situation, lack of empathy, detachment from reality and they displayed big hurt ego of arrogant politicians. That's how I see it.

mafketis
4 May 2022  #950

I'm most proud of our soldiers. ...they continue to do their job methodically and effectively.

Like this? The Ukrainian army released a tapped phone call between a soldier son and his mother where he happily describes torturing Ukrainian POWs and a civilian and the mother approves... (warning, very graphic and disturbing).

twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1521765064386170881

Paulina
4 May 2022  #951

@Bobko... Jesus... You have no shame... Russian soldiers are "methodically and effectively" destroying an independent country, murdering, raping, torturing and robbing it's people and you're "most proud" of that??? You live in the US, so you have no excuse of not knowing what your soldiers are doing in Ukraine!

mafketis
4 May 2022  #952

It is a fact that Germany misjudged Putin's Russia

It wasn't misjudgement... (which might refer to things like tax policy or social welfare) it was catastrophic failure to understand what Putin is all about despite massive evidence that everybody else was pointing to (Georgia, Syria, Chechnya not least Crimea and Donbass).

Official Germany (esp SPD) is still minimizing the degree and seriousness of its terrible failure which has contributed to the deaths of thousands of civilians and massive financial losses (and for the probably economic collapse of Russia).

It's not all Germany's fault but Germany is in no position to say let bygones be bygones...

jon357
4 May 2022  #953

warning, very graphic and disturbing).

Utterly inhuman.

PolAmKrakow
4 May 2022  #954

What happened to Muslims after 911 will happen to Russians. They will be attacked and vilified everywhere. Physically, mentally and financially. They will become meat outside of the Russian border for all to take advantage of. And, anyone not publicly denouncing Putin and Russia's actions should get all of it. You can not take what the west has to offer without supporting the west.

Crnogorac3
4 May 2022  #955

Protests in Bulgaria against the sending of weapons to Ukraine...

youtu.be/-g6A13u1AMs

Bratwurst Boy
4 May 2022  #956

it was catastrophic failure to understand what Putin is all about

There is another option possible....

German relationships with Russia had been build as Putin was still sane and reliable...now it all has become a mess as is Putin's head.

Tacitus
4 May 2022  #957

It is not like we had many alternatives. The USA had during the same time a president who waged an illegal war of agression against Iraq and later someone who was openly hostile towards Europe and against whom Putin might have had some incriminating material. With friends like those... .

Cojestdocholery
4 May 2022  #958

Putin was still sane and reliable

Putin was the same all the time. He didn't change, Ukraine was a suprise for him. Germany was/is OK with his plans. For a number of resons.

have had some incriminating material.

Oh come on with your nosense many times refuted. What Putin have on your Chancellor that is the question.
USA wasn;t hostlie towards Europe but toward German plans.

Tacitus
4 May 2022  #959

USA wasn;t hostlie towards Europe

Trump wanted to destroy the EU, more hostility is hardly possible.

many times refuted.

Rebuttals by Trump don't count. His actions towards Russia can only be explained by pressure or his idiocy.

jon357
4 May 2022  #960

They will become meat outside of the Russian border

It's fair to assume there would be massive anger among diaspora Ukrainians round the world even without the rapid babies and the horrible ******* vile descriptions of torture. With those, there won't just be anger, there will be blind rage. And blind rage is a dangerous thing.

Putin was the same all the time

Yes however I'd go further and I think you will agree. It's not just Putler, it's russia as a state. Did anyone really think that centuries of behaviour suddenly changed when they got McDonalds, Facebook and Harry Potter films? Perhaps those far from russia, ordinary folk maybe did. But politicians and diplomats are paid to know better, especially those closer to russia.


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