Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 5

True. The war - leaving moral and foreign political issues aside - is objectively disastruous for Russia's future.

Serfs don't care, they only care about the Tsar's image.... it's called the slave mentality and permeates russian society like a filthy miasma....

No doubt those who can afford to travel to Argentina are from the upper-middle class or above. In other words, they are those whom Russia can the least afford to loose.

The thing is.... I bet none of them oppose russia's genocidal ambitions, they just don't want ot be personally inconvenience. Neveer assume rational or benign motives of russians when venal and morally disgusting ones are also possible....

That is how people usually behave.. they dont react to a problem unless it affects them personally (or those close to them).

I have been asking for death stats since the beginning. So, how many died on both sides?

Also, when comparing life in Crimea before and after the annexation in 2014, what part of the difference is worth dying for? Food? Voting and civil rights? Police conduct?

What do you, PAK, see as worth your life?

The Freedom.

Freedom to do what?

@Novichok
I cannot answer for any Ukraine person. If it were me though, if my children were grown, at my age and in my condition, I would fight for the principles I have always had and believe in. Freedom, complete and total within the bounds of laws. Family, pursuit of happiness, and all that these freedoms imply or guarantee. Freedom to express myself and freedom of speech. All of them together are worth ricking my life for myself and my family. I would imagine that is what Ukraine men think. Anyone not thinking this way is not a patriot and a coward. Some things are bigger than ourselves.

Imagine you not being able to be your irritating self because it could get you killed. Killing Orcs so that even you could maintain your freedom would be valuable to me if they were invading my home or putting my family and community at risk. Every fvcking one of them would get a bullet to the head long distance from my rooftop. Just a bigger treestand and no antlers to see.

To live in your own country.
To have an influence on what's going on in that country.
To have an influence on the future of your country.
To vote in a new government into power if the present one sucks.
To write an article about how much the present government sucks.
To send thieving, corrupt politicians, police officers, etc. to prison.
To be yourself (Ukrainian).

That's just from the top of my head.

Russia is the opposite of what I mentioned above.


You're making a basic mistake here - the rest of Ukraine isn't Crimea. If it was, Putin would annex the whole of Ukraine, not just Crimea.

You should know that this is impossible at the current moment.

@Mister Korvinus, the latest trolling of mister Yevgeny Viktorovich Prigozhin - he addressed the American populace by explaining to them that today's America is not the America of their grandfathers and that it is time to join the Wagner Orchestra in the fight against such an America. After that, he received a million requests from America to join his squad.

twitter.com/PeImeniPusha/status/1620046139876864001

@Crnogorac3, you're repeating yourself - you already posted that lame video before lol Didn't they give you fresh propaganda material yet? :D


Link, please! lol 😁

To live in your own country.
Nobody owns a country. The term less poetic but more practical is: to live in the country of your choice. Russians, Chinese, and Americans are equally free to stay or move out. Check.

To have an influence on what's going on in that country.
You, I, and other PF posters have zero influence unless you think that taking showers only every other day influences global warming. Check.

To have an influence on the future of your country.
I meant "persona freedoms". Russians, Ukrainians, and Americans as individuals have zero influence on the future of their countries. See US open borders. DC doesn't give a fu*ck what we, the citizens want. Yours didn't ask you how many refugees would be too many. Check.

To vote in a new government into power if the present one sucks.
The "new" government is an optical illusion. Only the actors change to keep naive Civics 101 morons happy. Power resides where they have no to right to be. See Velund, Gates, and Davos. Check.

To write an article about how much the present government sucks.
Without the 1st Amendment, the whole world has no such right. Only Americans are so lucky. Check.

To send thieving, corrupt politicians, police officers, etc. to prison.
When was the last time you sent a thieving, corrupt politician, police officer, etc. to prison? Never, because nobody asked you what you think. Check.

To be yourself (Ukrainian).
A Ukrainian can stay Ukrainian in Crimea, speak Ukrainian, read Ukrainian papers, listen to Ukrainian radio, etc. The only thing that is no longer Ukrainian is his Russian passport.

Would you fight and possibly die because of that Russian passport?

So let's skip that Polish, from-our-heart stupid poetry, and concentrate on what really matters to a work-dinner-bed guy.

What is he not free to do in Crimea now he gives a fu*ck so much that he is willing to get a gun to start shooting Russians and very likely die? That's exactly what they and the foreign morons are doing now - for "democracy" most of them can't spell and define. But it sounds so good at the funeral: Your son died for "freedom and democracy". Here is the flag.

As usual, your ignorance and entitlement is boundless.

newsweek.com/wagner-group-absurdly-claims-10-million-us-applicants-isw-1780292

Imagine you regained the ability to read, comprehend, and comment on points.
In this thread, I post to discuss the differences in Crimea, Donbas, and Luhansk before and after the Russian takeover.
Once we have the list, we can check the items worth dying for.


That was deep and profound. I am impressed.

then don't, talking to the wall is a more productive use of time.... he ignores answers or comes up with lame answers that would be a waste of time to refute. he's chosen his side (russia against the west)

I've yet to hear what's so wonderful about the idea of putain ruling Ukraine that it's worth 130,000 russian lives and have yet to hear an answer....

russian state tv regularly announces it would like to nuke America,

he sides with russia..... he's a traitor.

@Novichok, all what you wrote above is crap, because people can compare what life is like in different countries and life in democratic countries is simply better than in authoritarian countries (like RuSSia). People are voting for better countries with their feet. Just like you did when you moved from PRL to the US, you hypocrite lol


How do you know? In RuSSia you can't even wear yellow and blue, because you either get fired or get arrested, Ukraine has been pretty much wiped out of RuSSian history text books and Ukrainian ethnicity, language and culture are denied the right to existence in RuSSian propaganda on RuSSian state TV. What Ukrainian would want to live in such a country? What Ukrainian would want to be ruled by a country that despises anything Ukrainian?

Besides, this discussion is pointless now. RuSSia did so much evil, killed so many people, destroyed so much that Ukrainians simply hate RuSSia now, they hate Putin and simply won't suffer living in a country ruled by people who gave orders to invade their country, kill their people and destroy their homeland. It's too late now.

To do what I bloody want.
But most of all, the freedom from russia.

I am not comparing "different countries".

One more time...I am comparing Crimea before and after...And by extension, Donbas and Luhansk before and after.
All those dead Ukrainians and the foreign useful idiots died for the difference, not for some imaginary heaven vs hell.

Please, don't make me say it again...

There were no US/NATO bases in Central-Eastern Europe, no US army units stationed here until Russian annexation of Crimea. After that the NATO member states of the region demanded more NATO involvement, because they felt threatened by Russian new aggressive behavior.

Until 2014 US strictly adhered to 'no bases in CEE' policy. Putin's move against Crimea changed everything.

Ah, that circular logic...To break that circle, make an animated movie to show how NATO was expanding after the collapse of its main and only enemy - the USSR.

Putin saw that movie and said, no fu*cking way will I let these m-fu*ckers be in Ukraine. I am not quoting him exactly but I think my rendition is close enough.


You have to do better if you expect me to reply.

@Novichok, and I'm telling you that:

1. The rest of Ukraine isn't like Crimea.
2. We're not in 2014. In 2014 the Crimea take over was pretty painless. There was little bloodshed.

This is 2023 and we're during a full scale invasion of Ukraine by RuSSia, we're after Mariupol, Bucha, etc. Wake up. We're not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy.


You can't even compare Donetsk (not Donbas) and Luhansk republics with Crimea. Donetsk and Luhansk are like Wild Wild West in comparison with Crimea.


Not imaginary - judging by what I know about Donetsk and Luhansk republics by now - they've turned in some pretty hellish crapholes.

Anyone can leave NATO at any time by any reason. Now, Warsaw pact was the unique military alliance in human history to only attack its own members. And NATO gave stability and peace necessary to have long therm investments into Western Europe. If NATO is such awful organization, why everyone wanna to join in?

NATO's expansion wasn't driven by the US or the West launching a campaign to try to convince, persuade former Warsaw pact states or post-Soviet countries into joining NATO. They came asking, and in some cases demanding, to be allowed into NATO. Poland threatened that we would develop nukes to protect ourselves if we couldn't join NATO.

And NATO was more resistant to expansion than accommodating to it. They made up a whole host of new conditions that applicants had to meet to be able to apply and join that hadn't existed previously. Some applicants spent years, or even more than a decade, in their attempts to join. And you know what a big reason for that was? Being wary of "provoking" Russia.

And on top of that the West has constantly been accommodating to Russia. The west and particularly America, stopped viewing Russia as an enemy and threat after the fall of the Soviet Union. And they were constantly willing to engage with Russia and negotiate with them.

You just brought the debate down to K-grade. Bye...

@Novichok
You can not compare. You are unqualified as you have never been. Only those that have been there can tell you what its like. I said, imagine, so that even your freedoms to be an a$$hole in the US are protected. Your freedom to speak your mind would get you whacked in a matter of days in Russia. When they knocked on your door you would $hit yourself. Freedom allows even you to be the person you chose to be. For me, that is more than worth killing a bunch of Orcs.

@mafketis
I know. I try to give chance after chance. But some think they can read bull$hit on the internet and pretend its fact.

Maybe next time try to swallow Putin's c*um first before talking to me. This way you'll be much more comprehensible. I don't mean you will be making more sense, but at least you will produce less gibberish.

For the last time...A memo to PF morons:

I am not comparing the US and Russia.

I am trying to make YOU to compare C, D, and L before and after the Russian takeover and from the point of view of a regular guy, not intellectual elites.

Do you know why, morons? It's because it is the regular guy that is expected to be doing the dying, not the intellectuals and the keyboard warriors like you whose sole role is to egg him on with meaningless lofty phrases with words even you don't understand.


You are living proof that debating Poles is useless. Sooner or later, they always hit the bottom.