Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 7

Why do you think that? Everything we know for sure suggests that Putin was never serious about the talks and that it was the discovery of Russian atrocities in Bucha and elsewhere that made the Ukrainians walk away.

To quote the Israelian PM Bennett who acted as a mediator.

"In the interview, Bennett himself notes that it was not the US, France, or Germany that put an end to any peace talks. Rather, it was Russia slaughtering hundreds of civilians in a town outside the Ukrainian capital, a war crime discovered just about a month after the full-scale invasion began.

"The Bucha massacre, once that happened, I said: 'It's over,'" Bennett recalled."

google.com/amp/s/businessinsider.com/israel-bennett-walks-back-claim-west-blocked-ukraine-russia-peace-deal-2023-2%3famp

There are people asking why Western politicians have been that naive towarda Putin's intentions before 02/2022.

But then you see other people who still want to believe in Putin's honest intentions even now.

@Tacitus
I believe it because so many rounds of talks were held. Like the Minsk accords, I believe it was the west buying time. Then Bucha made the perfect ecuse to walk away. Meanwhile thousands are dead and injured. The Bucha discovery was more then two months after several rounds of talks took place. The West pushed and pushed, and now Ukraine is backed into a corner. They have to keep fighting. Then when the US is done sending so much money they will have fought for what? Deals are there to be made. No one gets everything they want, but people stop dying.

No one was naive toward Putin. The US was warning everyone for months what was coming, and Ukraine said no it wont happen and so did the rest of Europe. Then when it happens people in Europe were surprised? This is a bull$hit position that people were surprised at all. Some people just refused to see what was exactly in front of them. Just as much as some people refuse to see what is in front of them now. The clock is ticking, and people need to start talking.

That goes to his credit. The US, on the other hand, sends its very best to sh*itholes to build nations and to protect "freedom and democracy" in the whole universe.

Southern border? Who gives a fvck...


Load of crap...If Putin was serious or not could be ascertained in the first 10 minutes. The Western scum in DC didn't want those 10 minutes because it might become obvious that in fact, Putin meant business and that you are stupid.

Hey, genius, "for sure" and "suggests" do not belong together.

I have an idea... Only PAK, Bobko, BB, Velund, and I should be allowed to post in this thread. There is a sandbox out there for the rest.

Why? What's the point of 'talking to' or 'negotiating with' a bad faith partner with a proven track record of breaking their word?

I'd sooner talk with a crocodile than with russia, a crocodile has the great virtue of being unambiguous and truthful in its intention to devour you...

I still stand by my brilliant idea...

Only PAK, Bobko, BB, Velund, and I should be allowed to post in this thread.

@mafketis
One learns nothing without communication. I talk with business rivals every day. I talk to people I despise if its worth the trouble. Not talking is a sign of ignorance. Putin is still saying he is willing to negotiate. So what if it only buys time until the guy dies and someone new comes to power.

PAK>>>>maf

If we are to believe Schroeder, then it's hard to accept your conclusion that Putin was never serious about talks. It wasn't Russia, but Uke that walked away from the talks. The negotiated points Schroeder listed are pretty serious and solid.

Maybe it's what Schroeder says in his recent interview confirms my theory about this dumbass war, but he makes a ton of sense. Plus, he was privy to the negotiations and he seems to be coming from a pro-Western strategic POV: he knows driving Russia nearer to China is not a benefit to the West.


Yeah, those funds are going to decrease or dry up substantially--or so it would seem from not only Johnson's stated position on the matter but because that was one of the points of contention in electing a Speaker.

Have you heard the Biden admin has supplied Uke by tapping into munitions earmarked for Israel? There are some who are starting to question whether or not our current stocks are affecting our own military readiness. It seems the idea that the US can supply Uke, Israel, and maintain our own stocks are a bit tenuous. And, Repubs are, rightly, more concerned with aiding Israel (who is fighting a true and immediate shared threat: terrorism) than Russia (who not all think is an immediate threat to USian interest).


Neocons? In the Bite Me Admin? They aren't neocons, they're worse, they're pocket-greasers; at least, neocons have some kind of noble intention for wanting to go to war.

It does not matter here. PF idiots always know better.


No. In the Senate, plus pundits.

For this great post, I am adding you to my list...

Only AntV, PAK, Bobko, BB, Velund, and I should be allowed to post in this thread.

That's all I ever wanted. ;)

Anybody else in the US? Europe is beyond all hope.

@AntV
Biden is putting the US in a very precarious position. Ammunition is low. Rich will probably remember the .22 shell shortage that lasted two years just a few years ago due to cutbacks in civilian production. Even target shooting and small game hunting became difficult. Switching the US to a war time economy is the only way things can get geared up the way it needs to be in order to support Israel, Ukraine and keep stocks in the US where they need to be. Not to mention what will happen with Taiwan in the future. Biden is ready to start WW3 and the idiot is just praying it stays a conventional war.

Frankly, I think Ukraine has done as good as they could with what they were given. The US held back too long on too many items and pretty much Fvcked their efforts. So now, its time to negotiate. Congress is not going to let Biden keep funcing this like he has. That is over, and it is time to give Ukraine what they were promised and wish them luck.

More trolling.....

A huge postage stamp with a map of Russia divided into parts has appeared near the Kyiv city council offices.

It also shows a kitty with matches, which set the map on fire....

• 
  image_b0052e1954880e.jpg
  

... and that's what we're left with, two years in, when America started to become bored with its new toy.

Oh, also, there's something like 500,000 dead men. I would be remiss not to mention, that the country is also in ruins, with half of its population living abroad.

With friends like America, who needs enemies?

I guess this is the sum of the losses on both sides. However, the question remains how many russians must be sacrificed to kill one Ukrainian.

This depends on who you ask.

If you ask Ukraine, then it takes 8-10 Russians to kill one Ukrainian. Forget about mathematics and logic - for this scenario we need to imagine that more than a million Russians have already fought in Ukraine.

If you ask Russia, it's roughly 40/60, in our favor.

There are some things the Ukrainians are undoubtedly better at - such as battlefield medicine, or combat casualty care. Their medkits are of higher quality, typically donated by Western militaries. Their ambulances are better equipped. For especially difficult cases, they fly their soldiers out to be treated in places like Berlin or NYC. In Russia, these things are either not available in necessary quantities or are impossible. Due to this - we may have a comparatively higher proportion of fatal losses within our aggregate losses.

On the other hand - there are some important things where we hold an undisputed advantage. For example - 90% of the casualties in this war thus far have resulted from artillery strikes. For the majority of the past 18 months, it has been Russia which held an overwhelming advantage in artillery fires. During this period, Ukrainians mostly sat in their positions and got pummeled. Extrapolate from this what you will...

Have all Polish "Krab" gun howitzers been destroyed?

no russian cares how many russians are killed if it's in the name of the Tsar...

Yes. As opposed to the ruskis who just let the die on the battlefield as they don't really have medics or as a small mercy shoot them.

russian culture does not value human life.... neither do people who support russia

Talk to him but don't believe a word he says and look at the broader context as well.....

There was no reason to continue talks after Bucha was discovered... but lacksidasical response just convinced russia that they won't face consequences.

Failure to react quickly enough and strongly enough to russian aggression gave them time to kick start war in Israel (the Oct 7 attacks have Wagner written all over them) and now Azerbaijan is looking to invade Armenia to create a corridor to its other half.

Hamas and Iran just flew to Moscow....

Peace is exspensive but a larger war will be far more expensive.

Lol... what?

Hey, stupid, there was an even better reason to talk to Putin after Bucha. Like to stop the damn war and prevent Bucha 2.0! Duh!

Where do they make idiots? Is there an idiot factory somewhere?

yeah maf dumb sometimes, bucha was a brit sas/ukri psyops, look what is happening in sudan gaza and stuff. in comparison bucha. ure abosolutely righ novi an excuse to stop negotiations.

yeah the ukri flechete artillery that took out a few civs. and they blame it on ruskis lolzo. not to deny that the ruskis killed a few civs there, and the buryat commander went a bit mad there, but in comparison that is happening/happened in the rest of the world. .. no wonder the africans are like wtf in how the west goin on a war in europe.

Best way to do that is to stop russia...

Europe promised to supply 1,000,000 artillery rounds by Marsh 2024, over halfway toward that and only 300,000 have been supplied... meanwhile North Korean slave labor has provided russia with 350,000 rounds....

twitter.com/GLandsbergis/status/1717459095928578291

@Bobko
The numbers, after looking at all sources say its 2 to 1 for casualties. More Russians injured and dead than Ukraine. That IMO is probably pretty close to accurate. Considering Russia has thrown nearly 600K men at this already, its probably a best guess. But yes, the democratic toy given to Biuden and the MIC is going to run out of batteries with the new congress and its new speaker. They may not even have six months left. This new speaker is a die hard Trumper, and if Trump cant run, then he will end all support for Ukraine. Biden weaponized law enforcement and the republicans will now retaliate.

@mafketis
No one gives AF if he is telling the truth or not. He has to die sometime. Make a deal for now and renegotiate with the new guy when he gets in. Or invade Russia after Putin is dead.

Bucha was real. The rapes, murders and tortures were real. And every POS Russian that was there should be hung by piano wire without a trial. But, the Minsk accords were also real, and any MF who negotiated in bad faith should also be hung. Let justice be delivered.

Europe is useless and can't do anything..

The European Union is falling behind on plans to provide Ukraine with a million artillery shells by March, people familiar with the matter said, potentially giving Russian forces an advantage in the supply of ammunition.

Estonian Prime Minister Kaja Kallas, in Brussels for a two-day EU summit, expressed her concern about the ammunition pledge.

"I'm very worried that some are giving out signals that we can't do this and we are not even aspiring to do this," Kallas told reporters. "What kind of signal does this give if countries say we will not do this? It's actually a signal that we are not taking defense seriously enough."

A number of countries, however, have shared figures privately, including at meetings this week where several member states asked the EU's external action service to extend the March deadline.

About a dozen countries, including the Baltic nations, Germany, the Netherlands and Poland, have supplied or are looking to collectively deliver about 300,000 to 400,000 rounds of ammunition mostly through the EU initiative. Sweden, Finland, Denmark and non-EU member Norway have placed orders valued at €52 million ($55 million), with production starting next year.

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-25/russia-ukraine-war-eu-is-falling-short-on-pledge-to-supply-kyiv-with-ammunition?leadSource=uverify%20wall

Wow! Is this the same Mafketis that said it's symptomatic of being a loser, when you go to NK for help?

How is it, that backwards and dysfunctional NK can supply more artillery rounds than prosperous and efficient West? Doesn't the West have 40 times the population, and probably 200 times the economy size?

Many questions, my friends, many questions...

Na ja, if I'm the owner of a slave farm with lotsa people I have the total control over, then it would be alot easier to work them to their death, keeping them hungry and in fear....

Compared to a factory in the West with workers who demand money and rest days and have rights and what not....

Doesn't make the slave farm a winner in any way, doesn't it?

Serious question Bobko, would you pack your things and go for a life in NK?

@Bobko, I think it's no secret that countries like North Korea (and RuSSia) focus on developing their military and their military industry rather than focusing on the well being of their population.


From what I've read they're getting rid of older military equipment and they're going to replace it with newer stuff. So, I'm guessing that they're sending some Soviet era stuff to RuSSia.


Exactly. Those are often private companies and not state-owned government controlled factories with noone having any say about anything.


Of course he wouldn't. He won't even go back to RuSSia lol