Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 7

Thanks for the laugh.


Yeah. Finland, Poland, the Baltics, Afghanistan, Czechnya, Georgia and now Ukraine. All countries comparable in size and population with Russia.


Remember the 1 million Afghans who died because their leader - despite being utterly subservient to the Soviets - was not marxist enough for Moscow's liking?

Russia invaded with Ukraine a peaceful, smaller country that posed no threat with no justification whatsover. And to add insult to injury they have utterly failed in their heinous surprise invasion and are now facing a years-long war of attrition.

While the rest of us are just watching the Russians bleeding themselves to death.

1) In Finland, Mannerheim was supported by Hitler and Mussolini. Finland is already not a walk in the park, but supported by those two, it was a hard nut to crack indeed.

2) Poland had on its side betrayal and duplicity. In our weakest moment, they split off, and fought whatever ragtag team of fighters we could assemble while fighting the White Russians, Central Asian basmachi, and the rest of Europe and America as they tried to reimpose Tsarism on us.

3) The Baltics had no right to be free, to begin with. We bought them, as one buys bread at the store. They were property.

4) Chechnya is a tough cookie. I would like to see how you fight them?! They have been fighting us for 200 years. They are made from different material than normal human beings.

5) Georgia - Georgia thought it was under the protection of Bush, Condoleeza Rice and Juncker. We had to disabuse them of this delusion. Ukraine helped them to the extent it was able to.

6) Ukraine - largest part of our former military industrial complex. The most capable armies, and the biggest storage depots. Enough firepower to overwhelm all of Europe, and then invade Britain.

In other news, a russian propagandist admits that the living standard in Europe is higher than in Russia, and the west offers Ukraine membership EU and NATO, whereas russia can't offer anything to the areas it's occupied except to use them to slaughter other Ukrainians or use them in future wars.

twitter.com/victoriaslog/status/1723753280365359220

dorzeczy.pl/kraj/501480/lisicki-specjalisci-od-zdobycia-krymu.html

Also, the Pope covers for the mass molestation of children.

The bear - it sh!ts in the woods, when biology forces him to do so.

Poles hate Russians, though they owe their existence to Russian benevolence.

I can spout these truths all day long.

Please note that Russians are living within their own means while the west is deeply in debts...

Not only do we live within our own means, but we also fight our own wars.

Would you give most of them a credit line?

@Bobko
Lets be clear buddy. Russia owes its existance to the USA. Without lend lease, and without Japan, Russia is nothing more than another victim of Nazi's. Europe is all still speaking German. Russia has never been more than a supply of bodies, as it exhibits today.

Comparing wars with Mexico? WTF are you talking about? Grasping at razor blades again. Russia gave security guarantees to Ukraine for them to give up their nukes. Russia invaded and broke their own agreed to guarantees. The US was attacked, when looking at the middle east issues. When did Ukraine attack Russia? Maybe Ukraine should just start killing Russians inside of Russia without care? That to me would be fair if I am Ukraine.

All the bull$hit about the reasons one way or another for this war are arguments of mental midgets. V and Z, two fvcking idiots who should not be in power anywhere. People are dying because these two fvcking mental midgets cant agree on language and cultural issues. Thats what this stupid war is about. Anyone willing to follow either of these idiots into battle deserves to die. There is no good reason for this war. A battle of ideology sounds a lot like the Jews and Hamas. Stupid.

With this, I may grudgingly agree.


With this, I cannot agree. We existed for one thousand years before you ever appeared, and we will exist for at least a thousand more. Sorry.


Did you get half your current states from this shameful war, or not?

@Bobko
You cannot compare politcal climates from 100 years ago to today. That war was generations ago. We dont have to agree on whether or not Russia owes its existance to the US lend lease. Russia needs to recornize the impact lend lease had on the victory in Europe, and it does not.

I think you're not giving that war proper context. Who invited Americans into the Texas territory? What caused the tensions in Texas pre-1846? Etc? I'm sure you know, Texas wasn't the only Mexican state to rebel against Santa Anna.

Plus, most of that land was purchased for cold hard cash. Us Americans win wars then infuse its enemies with cash after we win. Admit it, we're magnanimous. Even to the point of allowing foreigners who have a strained relationship with our country to benefit from our economic largesse while they pursue their dreams within our borders.

😉

A fair question - no doubt. But it's also clear, you in no way limited your gains to Texas.

No, but it wasn't us raping Mexico to acquire it, either. Mexico invited Americans into Texas because it couldn't populate it. Those lands weren't teeming with Mexicans in the first place. Mexico was and has always been a tempestuous nation.

Compare West Germany (US largesse) vs East Germany (USSR supervision) or Japan (US occupation after war) with the Iron Curtain countries (under the Soviet thumb)...

Who did better?

Sure we did. At least we managed to get rid of you...

The favorite argument of Russian liberals.

Facts:

1) We lost a huge portion of our population

2) For more than three years the war raged within our heartland, as it did for France 1914-1918.

3) Nobody argues we were Switzerland in Tsarist times. Our leaders after the war were focused on salvaging what little was left of the country.

4) Communism may not be as good a system for economic development as capitalism. Sorry, our mistake - but at least we gave it the old college try.

While I may not share Maf's general view of Russia, he is absolutely correct, regardless how you slice it, we have a pretty good track record of building up nations. Capitalism is surely a prominent feature, but so is our liberal (in the traditional sense) ideas. We not only aid in developing an economic system but our traditional ideas of human liberty aid in human flourishing that brings about widespread prosperity and stability. Sure, we aren't always perfect, but we're oftentimes pretty damn good.

The problem with contemporary America is that those traditional ethos of liberty are being abandoned for license and a neo-Marxist ethos.

I know that you are below the level where an intelligent discussion is possible but that is a new low. So let me try to put some sense in your head...

The US invaded Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq for a lot less than Russia invaded Ukraine. These three countries would never present any threat to us. Ever.

Mexico having a Russian or Chinese military base??? Are you fvcking kidding?

The US didn't invade Cuba because the USSR blinked and turned their ships around. Duh!

What an idiot...

It boils down to a simple question: Would the US allow Mexico to join the USSR or now Russia in a military pact similar to NATO in Germany?

I found this comment on YouTube. Memo to morons: Read it and your moron index will drop.

Let's be clear. No one in the West is fighting this war to "win." There is no such effort.

What that would entail is defeating the Russian military directly. Neither the US nor Europe has any stomach for that fight. More importantly, collectively, we don't have the industrial capacity for that fight. Right now, Russia is running a wartime economy. We aren't, nor can we. We've simply de-industrialized and shipped too much of that infrastructure to the third world.

We couldn't fight this war if we wanted to. To be clear, no one wants to. The soldiers aren't chomping at the bit to go. The public doesn't support any such thing. There is no viable pathway to fight a war with nuclear armed Russia and win it. What that means is that Ukraine cannot win. All we're doing is perpetuating a war that should be over so Ukraine doesn't keep throwing men and materiel into a meatgrinder of artillery and drone-based weapons.

$200 billion dollars, 500,000 Ukrainians dead, 3x that mangled and crippled for life, half of Ukraine's population is living as refugees scattered all over Europe right now, they're drafting women because they've run out of men to kidnap off the streets, and these aholes still have the audacity to talk about "winning."

There is no "winning." If you want to win you bring overwhelming force to bear and you do it as quickly and efficiently as you can to minimize the damage and human suffering. You do exactly the opposite of what these grifters are suggesting. It's evil to just perpetuate a war for war's sake.

Clear and to the point. Did you notice, morons?

I noticed a bunch of russian propaganda talkiing points.... probably a russian bot

I do agree that the west is afraid of russian failure (lord knows everybody should be used to it but it seems to surprise russians every time).

Meanwhile russians are dying by the bucket load for one of the least free and most pathetic political systems on earth where people live in garbage because a bunch of crooks at the top steal everything and everybody else just accepts it.

The USA defended South Korea against an invasion from the North and in a similar scenario South Vietnam against North Vietnam. While the invasion of Iraq was illegal, it was aimed against a murderous regime, a line of argument that initially convinced a lot of people.

In your scenario, thr USA did not invade Mexico because the latter made the decision to host a Chinese base. Instead they invaded -after receiving assurances by Beijing that Mexico would not join any alliance, let alone host a base - after having previously guaranteed Mexican independence on the mere prospect that things could change in a few decades.

The USA invading a democracy without proper justification? Unthinkeable. Not gonna happen. Not once in history has a democracy invaded another one, , let alone with the absence of any semblence of justification as with Ukraine. Not to mention that US leadership has consistently been smart enough to avoid auch a large-scale near peer-to-peer war, never mind it being located so close at home. Because naturally the American people would not take kindly to sacrifice 200k lifes for such a stupid reason.

The USA made plans for invading Canada. Maybe they would have invaded if Canada had allied with the Axis? Who knows, but leaving aside how unrealistic such a scenario is (like Mexico willingly ally against its' vital trading partner), that would have hardly justified Nazi Germany's invasion of Poland.

This is just a strawman you use, because reality gives you nothing to justify your absurd claims. You like to repeat Russian talking points, but even know better than to use that absurd argument.

In other news... a russian actress sort of, kind of, maybe, in a way starts to get a conscience?

She's supported the war and doesn't car that russians kill Ukrainians... but she's starting to realize that the biggest enemy of russian people is the russian government... she's especially incensed that mobilization now means 'until you're dead or too injured to keep going'....

the russian govenment kills russians by the boatload and sheeplike apathetic russians just. don't. care. They never rebel against russians governments killing russians or demand accountability for former government actors that killed russians... they don't want freedom, they want potatoes and to be told what to do and how to think.

It would be sad if it weren't so grotesque.....

twitter.com/victoriaslog/status/1723664275359580182

Thats a lie. The Empire invaded because it didnt like the government and didnt want a country that wasnt totally subservient to the US existing in its sphere of influence. In addition they needed a plot for another propaganda film to keep the spray cheese eating population content to have the national assets stripped by a load of oligarchs

I knew someone who was in Grenada at the time, usually very leftwing and marxist and _he_ said that everybody (except the government) supported the invasion because the soviet-backed government had just killed a bunch of people....

Anyone saying the US couldnt switch to a war time economy is a fvcking idiot. The US has more manufacturing capability than any other country in the world. If the government wanted to, or if the MIC wanted or needed to ramp up production of airplanes, ammunition and other weapons, for any reason, it could. For instance, with Xi talking about a future conflict with the US, Biden might want to wake TF up and start retrofiting and refurbishing all the manufacturing plants across the country. Creates jobs immediately, and in the future. Want to get production rolling fast? Ask Elon Musk. Seriously, the statement that the US cant win or ramp up to a war time economy is just fvcking stupid wishful thinking for someone.

All the conjecture about Mexico is another bad joke. Mexico without US aid, jobs, and trade is a dust bowl. Russia could offer nothing, and China could offer what? Rice?

The only point that is accurate in any of this is that any war should be fast and decisive. Shock and awe was a pretty good tactic. Who else can pull that off? No one but the US. Biden has been getting rid of old weapons to be replaced by new and he has not given enough to Ukraine for a quick win. Neither has Europe. The long goal of weakening Russias military has been accomplished. Could they invade Moldova or some small country? Sure. But Russia is not going to run all over Europe or the former soviet states.

classic short term thinking.... they don't have the capability now but they haven't lost the desire... Europe isn't safe until the desire for empire is burned out of them....

Vlad Vexler just had a video about that...

@mafketis
A bloke in the bar told me that your bloke was speaking for hisself only.

@mafketis
Desire for Empire would most likely not extinguish. Focus would just shift to goals that need to be reached before their Empire could be rebuilt "Unify the country first" etc

If Russia would be invaded by a gigantic coalition sanctioned by UN, have occupational ZONES and be torn into provinces. There would still be a few or one big that would want to be the next "Muscovites" that create Russia.

So at the moment, only option is to reduce Russia's capabilities to wage offensive wars, even failing offensives so as to spare as many lives as possible.

@mafketis
No. Its long term thinking which says you win the most immediate fight by depleting the enemy. Which buys Europe time to actually arm themselves and train armies for a war in the future. PiS was right about one thing, and that was to build up the military. Russia is not about to pick a fight with NATO now. Two years ago? Maybe and I think Ukraine was the test case to see the response. Russia cannot beat NATO, and even after the US leaves NATO at some point, Europe will be armed enough by then to be able to defend itself. The US will leave eventually, NATO serves no protective purpose for the US in the eyes of Americans. No one is going to invade the US like no one is going to invade China or Russia. Those are three places an invading force cannot win, occupy and control.

The desire for empire, which is a completely antiquated thought process, will never be burned out of any backward and isolated nation. Russia and China will eventually face off. The US/China war will be fought in Taiwan and tropical destinations. When that is over, China and Russia will have to have their own war on the Asian continent. Maybe its 50 to 100 years away, but it is inevitable. Putin is fighting the wrong war now, and like Stalin trusted Hitler only to be stabbed in the back, Xi will turn on little Vlad at some point. All the other little fvckwadistans will turn on Vlad at some point too. Such is life in turd world nations.