Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 7

@jon357
Sorry, but I also have Polish citizenship now. I would love to see what would happen if the US pulled all its forces out of Europe. There would be the worlds largest collective "oh $hit" spoken in history.

Americans are happy the military role outside of the country is reducing, they are tired of burying their own children. So please tell me who these other countries are that would and are capable of replacing the US and its MIC? No money from the US to Ukraine in months and no one has stepped up. At the start of the war Germany and France wanted to send some lube to Vlad to use on Ukraine before they would send weapons.

The US has not "needed" physical assistance in any of their now seen stupid wars in the middle east, it needed a coalition force for political cover in the U.N. nothing more. As for 9/11 it was article 5 and NATO had no choice but to send some people.

Really poor commentary on coal mines in the US when if not for coal mines in Poland this country would be in deep $hit for energy needs. Kind of pot and kettle. But of course the know it alls on PF who do not travel to the US or anywhere else for that matter, know everything by watching CNBC.

Again, that post was like something I would write except that yours is a lot more elegant and patient.
I am not able to treat these idiots that well anymore. All I have left is contempt and ridicule.

...or defending it if attacked by China or Russia...hahahahahahahahaha...
Euros coming here to defend the US...what a fvcking joke...hahahahahahahaha...

Hey, a-holes, you can come and defend our borders since our army is not allowed to do it. How about it? We can and do defend South Korea and its border. That's OK. US border? No way.

So we need some serious help to deal with the hordes and our own government...Please...

There wouldn't though, would there. And if they tried that, they'd be on their own for ever.


Except of course they have. They begged others to help, and in. the one major war, Vietnam, where they didn't receive it, they lost badly and humiliated themselves,.


Wrong again; several NATO members came to their aid however most didn't.

Next time read PAK's post slowly and actually pay attention. All that "help" was then and later in Iraq window dressing so that the DC scum could call it "coalition".


Article Not Me.

Bullsh*it. They came to do guard duty and to cook. In fact, they were a net liability since it was our job to protect their pacifist asses. "We will come but not to shoot and kill."

Except for the Brits, I wonder if these weasels even had real guns with real ammo that can go boom.

He's still wrong though, isn't he...

And id to Ukraine won't stop any time soon...

@jon357
Reading comprehension class "wars in the middle east" does not include anything outside of the middle east. You might want to take a history class as well. All of NATO responded after 9/11 with either arms, people, logistics or political cover. If they hadn't, they all know the US would have left NATO. And then little Vlad would be eating caviar in Warsaw by now.

The fact is, and has been since WW2, Europe is nothing without the support and military presence of the US. Germany and Poland would absolutely $hit their pants if the US pulled up stakes. The Ukraine war would be over in weeks, and Vlad would be lining up to roll into Warsaw and Rzeszow and there would be nothing to stop him. Not even 300K Poles in all branches of the military and Russia has let that many die or be wounded. Germany? Sholz would be baking strudel to welcome Vlad, and Macron would be looking for his prettiest dress. Slovakia isnt going to stand in the way, and the Czech will be busy drinking all their fine beers. If anyone overstates anything it is several PF posters who imagine their countries being more prepared than they are.

Majority of Americans still favor aid and arms shipments to Ukraine

globalaffairs.org/research/public-opinion-survey/american-public-support-assistance-ukraine-has-waned-still

Including half of Republicans

If any Presidential candidates can string two words together then they can make a case for or against Ukraine, but at the moment Joe Public knows that Putler is a monster and that aggression should not be tolerated.

If there was no aid to Ukraine and that 47 billion was saved, each US taxpayer would be 313 dollars better off. Not to be sneezed at but maybe a price worth paying for maintaining US power in Europe, and supporting the US defense industry, testing your weapons and tactics against ignorant alcoholics and cutting off Udmurtian power in other regions.

You're still wrong...


Also patently untrue.

You constantly overstate the importance of your country, despite its own defence analysts strongly expressing views opposite to yours.


Except of course that the level of income inequality is huge there and their citizens wouldn't see the benefit.

Neither of you know much about the US.

kyivindependent.com/us-senate-to-consider-aid-for-ukraine-after-nov-23/

thehill.com/policy/international/4289366-americans-support-ukraine-waning-gallup-survey/

@jon357
You are overly emotional and cant see the forest from the trees. When was the last time you were in the US? Do you happen to read more than left wing tree hugging news sources? Or is everyone just required to fall in line with your opinion? Facts are that the US has sent no new money or arms since August. No vote coming until after American Thanksgiving holiday. And all the money going to Ukraine might only be 313 dollars per person, but that money would be much better spent on taking care of actual US citizens. You know, like Poland wants to take care of Poles first.

I think you guys are all missing the point.
Does America EVER do anything that is not in it's favour?Answer No!
So why do they expend so much time, money and energy to protect Europe?
I will let you come to your senses on your own.....

Or even the opposite. All the emotion here is from yourself.


You're evidently forgetful since you asked that question several days ago.


Mostly the Daily Telegraph, though don't let that spoil your failed attempts at a straw man argument.

Are you suggesting that only your favoured news sources are reliable?

And if you think the failing capitalist system there cares about its citizens that much more than Putler's failed autocracy, you are either deluded or much worse.

@Milo, you've hit the nail on the head with those questions. I don't expect much of an answer.

Thank you Jon, I don't expect much of an answer either,because these idiots don't have one.

So yours are the only correct sources? What's wrong with the public opinion survey that cms neuf cited in #4271? Doesn't back up your info?


Pot kettle black.

Only because the morons never get monthly invoices. On top of that, they know the DC scum will send whatever they want to Ukraine even if the majority didn't want it. Majority doesn't want the border to be open and the DC scum doesn't give a fvck what the majority thinks about it. So take your majority argument, roll it up, and place it where we can't see it.


Don't lower yourself to that idiot.
Yes, I have an answer. Ripping off US taxpayers is the primary activity in DC, with the MICC in the lead. These motherfvckers would sell Lake Michigan and Mount Rushmore if they could. They can't so they pretend the US needs NATO and feed the masses with that "who if not us" crap.

The illusion of unlimited resources, combined with the exclusively American messiah complex, eliminates voters' opposition to the US playing the role of the world's stupidest cop.

As PAK wrote, things are changing so enjoy the American stupidity while you still can.

@Miloslaw
The US has done what it wanted in its interest. The US does not need, and I would argue does not want a completely defeated Russia. The US wanted a weaker Russia, one that will not have the military power or resources to continue to start more wars. That mission has largely been accomplished. The US needs to have a "boogey man" and there is no better one than Russia. This allows for the MIC to exist and all the money continuing to be spent. It is that simple. Where is the justification for the US military with no Russia? Especially if as someone said even the Pentagon says there is no more spending or power within their walls or in their reach.

Thinking the US cares about Ukraine, as much as Europe should care, is bad thinking. The US cares about the US interests. Even sleepy Joe has said that the war will end when Ukraine is ready for it to end. He isnt saying when Russia is pushed out, Z is saying they will fight to the last Ukraine, not the US. Although US lip service is that they want to see territory restored, we all know that it is not likely.

"the failing capitalist system" is far better than any socialist bull$hit being proposed, and it is exactly the system that has protected Europe for the last 80 years or so. Failing capitalism? Not a chance. Failing leadership and excesive government spending? Absolutely. Line up for that basic income and next you will be getting meat coupons on your phone. Funny how people point out problems in the US and its system still expect the US to keep spending and protecting. So I ask again, who would replace the US?

Please, list all wars that Russia started in last century.


And ended in complete degradation of society....

WWII for starters....


rare insight into the broken and dysfunctional nature of russian society....

very deranged.... where people are told that having family members not being killed in Ukraine is bad....

twitter.com/victoriaslog/status/1724894010861343142

worse.. most russians agree, who needs a husband or a father when you have refrigerator that won't get pass out drunk and/or beat you?

twitter.com/victoriaslog/status/1724921864265281722

The resident putin lickers here might check this, a russian surveys the 'accomplishments' of the putin regime 2000-2023, which is a list of failures and collapse in all sectors of society...

youtube.com/watch?v=rIbVscOqliQ

He says 3 million have left the country in the last 20 months? That's even more than I thought... russia is eating its seed corn (and I won't care at all when the results of that become clear).

My main criticism is that he dumps all this on putain himself rather than where it belongs, russian citizens who are apathetic and passive and simply accept tyranny rather than stand up for themselves...

@Velund
1929 Afghanistan, 1939 Poland, 1939 Finland, 1940 Baltics and Romania, 1956 Hungary, 1968 Czech, 1969 Egypt, 1979 to 89 Afghanistan, 1994 Chech, 1999 Chech 2, 2008 Georgia, and now Ukraine. Not a conclusive list of wars Russia has been a part of, that would be a lot longer list.

"And ended in complete degradation of society" and the USSR said the same thing about the USA in the 1960's and the hippie movement. US not only survived but has continued to kick Russia's a$$ in every measurable way. Run along now for the line to get your vodka ration for the week.

am happy to report after the son of ukr nationalists marying the daughter of ruski church fans ie ruski nationalists, after a 48 hour slavic wedding with lots of vodka, and ukris and ruskis and polaks drinking, there was no bijatika, am happy to report.

The USSR or Russia since 1945:
1979 to 89 Afghanistan, 1994 Chech, 1999 Chech 2, 2008 Georgia, and now Ukraine
Except for Afghanistan, all in the buffers and, therefore, defensive.

The US since 1945:
Korea, Vietnam, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Ukraine.
None of them to defend the US. All to feed the US MICC.

Later, I will count the casualties caused by Russia and the US since 1945.
From now on, for simplicity, I will lump the USSR and Russia and refer to both as Russia.

Russia caused the Korean War and none of the wars you mentioned were defensive in nature.

@Novichok
Agree to disagree that all were defensive by Russia. But will agree on Vietnam, Korea and Kuwait. US not fighting on the ground in Ukraine. Iraq and Afghanistan justified IMO.

Meanwhile Ukraine has a foothold across Dnipro. This is a pretty big deal, and if they can make some moves they could cut off Crimea and Russia would be completely fvcked. Weapons from US of course wont be needed because some yet to be identified European country will give everything to Ukraine. Waiting for that news flash.

Today, children, we will learn why saying "it's good for the US" needs an explanation. The reason: Life is mostly a zero-sum game. When A wins B loses. It's actually that simple.

Euros have been referring to the US as the US or "America". This is not accurate. The US has three parts: The ruling mob congregating mostly in the DC and consisting of the president, Congress, K-Street, and thousands of unelected parasites aka government bureaucracy. Let's call them the Mob.

The second layer includes pundits, presstitues, professors, and similar vermin whose duty is to spread lies for the benefit of the Mob. These scumbags will be known here as the Wh0res.

The third and the last major group are the morons who believe what the Wh0res tell them. As the least guilty, we will be kind and call them the Believers. These are the people the Mob needs to be their useful idiots and bootlickers, willing and ready to die at faraway places for a cause as explained to them by the Wh0res through the evening news and other sources of simple-to-understand headlines.

Then there are a few individuals like me who know all that and get ulcers because of it. To be fair to the US, every single "democratic" country has all three parts.

....hence my invention: "USian" for the US and it's citizens! :)

Sadly only AntV found it practicable....for awhile...

@Novichok
Fortunately, go woke go broke is gaining a lot of ground and the people who just wanted to be left alone are now entering the discussions. Smart people the actual majority of people in the US are getting involved again, and that is bad news for the left. Unfortunately it is also bad news for Ukraine. A lot of people on PF are going to be surprised when sleepy Joe is gone. If Trump isnt in jail, he will win, and it will be the end of Ukraine war, the end of NATO membership, and the end of the socialist bull$hit.

theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/16/russian-artist-aleksandra-skochilenko-protested-against-ukraine-war-jailed

Respect to this brave lady who spoke her mind in Udmurtia and now has 7 years of bird.

Is Udmurtia still bound by the Helsinki accords ? Or did they die with the USSR

...and then we can slash our "defense" budget by 75% - down to China's - and make deficit spending a capital offense punishable by public hanging or a short flight from a 10th-floor balcony.


Not good enough as it lumps the evil with the stupid. I hate both but not equally. With enough patience, the stupid can be fixed.

For example, a conservative is a liberal who got raped or mugged so it works.