Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 7

Cannon fodder for Putler's disastrous invasion of Ukraine.

Some more good news. The Kiel Support Tracker, the best source of information for the world's support for Ukraine has been updated.

ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/

It revealed a significant increase in pledges to Ukraine from European countries, which means Europe is prepared to support Ukraine long-term. Even in the unlikely event of the USA stopping/significantly reducing aid in 2025, it seems Ukraine will be able to continue the fight in some capacity (though US support remains highly valuable).

app.23degrees.io/view/5V9AdDpw1pmLxo1e-bar-stacked-horizontal-figure-1_csv

Norway has been a bit under the radar, but may end up as the 4 th most important military supporter of Ukraine, behind the US, Germany and the UK despite its' small size.

What is it with your long diatribes about toilets and transsexuals ?

I can only conclude Udmurtians are morbidly fascinated with dung.

So you are fighting this war to stop gay marriage ? Or to protect kids against gender fluidity. And you are doing that by bombing schools, blowing up air hostesses, firing missiles at supermarkets ?

Why not just let Udmurtian citizens have normal elections where they can vote on the issues of the day ? It is a much nicer way to live.

They dislike r*SSia and of course have increased oil revenues to use helping the Ukraine. If they come in after the main donors, US and U.K. and Germany, it will be a big help to Ukraine.

The production facilities that BAe are building in Ukraine will be a sea change and. I understand other companies elsewhere in Europe are stepping up production.


Attempts to deflect.

Europe has its own invasion to deal with and is a dead man walking...
As a German, you should know that it takes men who are still alive to wage a war. Dead men are not very good at it.

If what you just read is not clear to you, google "Stalingrad".
I love Stalingrad.

There Is only one invasion happening in Europe right now. The one started by Russia.

In what way?


In what way?

OK, you are not dead yet but time is not on your side. Not convinced? Visit Londonistan. Or Frankfurt if you dislike foreign trips as much as I do.

With a kill ratio of 10 to 1 in Russia's favor, if I were you, I would seriously reconsider betting on Ukraine.

Long-term Ukraine is really screwed with so many women out or without husbands.

That leaves only one solution: The US fighting Russia face to face with no proxies as those are simply dead.

PAK, your turn...By the way, I am glad you are back even when we disagree...It sure beats wasting time on Euros here...


Step One: Putin declared orphanages and schools pervert-free zones. For this alone I adore Putin.

A chart prepared by Radio Liberty (hopefully you won't accuse them of favoritism towards the Kremlin). The chart shows where orphaned children are located. You can see that the trend is clearly in the direction of reducing the population of orphanages, and instead setting kids up with families.

From left to right - the categories are: 1) orphanages 2) foster care 3) adoptions 4) foster families.

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@Tacitus
You make some good points. All of which will be mute when the US pulls support, and no longer allows its weapons to be sold or gifted to Ukraine. Gone are the HMARS and a whole lot more. The blind faith of the EU in the USA is simply not well placed. I am not saying this because I want the US to stop fighting Russia through Ukraine, I am saying this because it is going to happen. Its time for all the EU people to take off the rose colored glasses and really see whats happening in the US. Its ugly my friends, and because its ugly its going to get real ugly for Ukraine in 2025.

Even a 1990's Cintonian Democrat is going to bail on Ukraine, and seal the US borders. People need to remember that Democrats were not always such nut cases. They used to have a real platform and real ideas, not just catering to extreme solcialist ideology.

@Novichok
I enjoy the debate when its based on facts. Not just ideals and hopes for what individuals want. This war brings up a lot of 1970's and 80's thinking from an emotional point, but getting beyond that emotion, people need to start actually understanding where this is heading. Putin really cant win like he wanted to, he has lost what he really wanted. But he knows if he can hold out he will get a partial victory. The sooner people understand this, the sooner people are negotiating. Too many young men dead for no reason now.

You should read this article by Daniel Davis, on 19 Forty Five.

Link: 19fortyfive.com/2023/09/how-ukraines-heroic-stand-against-russia-could-collapse-into-failure/

His bio on the website states that: "Davis is a Senior Fellow for Defense Priorities and a former Lt. Col. in the U.S. Army who deployed into combat zones four times." So, this is a credible source.

Article is titled: How Ukraine's Heroic Stand Against Russia Could Collapse Into Failure

A good quote from the article:

Whether Ukraine and Russia come to a settlement now, a year from now, or five years from now, the ultimate outcome will likely be the same: a negotiated end in which neither side gets everything it wants. Every delay in reaching that point condemns untold thousands to unnecessary deaths.

We shall see. That the US will not only cease support but also prevent its' allies from delivering US weapons to Ukraine is a possibility, but as of right now the least likely one. I do not think even Trump has threatened this. The US weapons delivered to Ukraine until 2025 will allow them to continue fighting for years on end (especially since the Russians have been rather ineffective in eliminating systems like Himar) and Europe should by then be able to produce enough weapons themselves to keep the fight going.

@Tacitus
I think you have not read the numbers accurately. When the US cuts off support, Ukraine will have zero in thirty days or so. Trump doesnt need to make threats, and the other leading Republican candidates have said they will stop funding Ukraine. Just facts, not hopes or emotions.

@Bobko
Excellent source and I completely agree. I have always said this will end in a negotiated peace. Z unfortunately is making promises he really cannot keep unless they make a huge push between now and January. I personally dont like Z's attitude or the way he speaks as though the US or anyone else owes Ukraine. When in fact Ukraine was being warned for months that Russia would invade.

The war never needed to happen, and all these kids didnt need to die. Democracy is one thing, but fighting for democracy, even by proxy has its limits today after the COVID destruction. Thinking big picture, this war has reached its climax, and now there really is no other option than to negotiate.

I suspect he meets moot rather than mute.

In my opinion too, the likelihood of the yanks withdrawing involvement is at best minimal. Although some of their louder populist politicians yell about it, their advisors are very well aware of the larger geopolitical issues and their consequent loss of prestige. A key issue with their involvement in Asia and with responses to the rise of China and India,

They've already lost face with China's growing soft (and not so soft) power in Africa and other parts of the global south, including in south and Central America.


This has started already and will certainly be both decisive and profitable.

He looks like dear masha about to thrown in the meat grinder in ukraine thanks to putin.


PAK stop, we know it's going to happen in 2024 (or maybe not) ,so till then STFU

Which means more war in the future.... russia has been very clear Ukraine is the beginning and not some final goal....

Just insane to think you can negotiate with Udmurtia and it certainly isn't the only option - a far better option for the world is to defeat Udmurtia, put its rapist leaders on trial and make them rebuild everything they have destroyed

You really don't understand the EU and what goes on in there, don't you?

The USA better or its [deep state] keep it foot here or they might loose a lot, and that counting on EU and Germany is rather ill placed.

BS. Trump or another mad Rep is elected and your US foot vanishes into the thin air. You are naive like a kid lost in the foggy forest. That is why we need to develop the cooperation within the EU.

...and if you can't, little Polish boy, just nuke 'em. You are so smart...


That is not likely to happen because the US will never again have a Republican president. Maybe a RINO puke like Graham, but not a real conservative.

Trump wanted the US army out of Syria but the US army and US MICC gave him the middle finger and we are still there.

Bottom line: We have two corrupt parties with their roles assigned - one of them faking "loyal opposition" - and monitored by the K scum. Ignore the K or MICC boys and you are history.

The U war will end when U is out of men. We can print money forever or so they feel.


How about debating his points instead of playing mind games?

Hows that summer offensive going? It will be autumn in a few short weeks, whos winning?

Its the same old war hawks that havent learned anything from Iraq and Afghanistan. Biden is depleting our weapon stockpile to defend a foreign border and leave ours wide open. No wonder his favorability rating is only at 30 % and everyone knows hes a bumbling idiot.

Ukraine is winning

It is nothing like Iraq - that was an illegal, US led invasion.

In this case the US is helping a peaceful democratic nation defend themselves against drunk rapist aggression.

You can talk about Biden and Trump on the US thread but hopefully neither will win and the US can have some normal, non criminal, fully cogent leader

Hey, little naive boy, even Biden and his generals are not saying this.
If Ukraine is winning that war can stop right now and Z would be very happy, right?

Yes.And starting to cut through the third line of defence already.


But morally the right thing to do after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, after gassing Kurds with chemical weapons, with the persecution of Shi'ites and others and with the very real risk of a devastating war between Iraq and Iran which would likely have enveloped the whole region.


Biden's approach is a little too cautious for my liking however his government have a delicate balancing act to do, especially with considerations like China. trumpet will hopefully soon be in a Florida gaol for the rest of his life.

Biden now trying to tie Ukraine funding to disaster relief funding. If you are an American citizen are you happy with 24 billion going to Ukraine while 16 billion goes to disaster relief at home? Think about what this says to US citizens.

@Ironside
I do understand the EU. But most Europeans here do not understand the political climate in the US right now. Most people in the US, a great majority, will never come to Europe, and do not care about Europe at all. A majority never even leave their home State. To most Americans, Ukraine is as far away as the moon. If you asked the average American outside of the Democratic strongholds, if they would like to spend over a hundred billion on a war in Ukraine, or have all the highways and bridges that are crumbling in the country fixed, you are going to get one answer.

@Novichok
I have to disagree. I think a republican gets in this time. If Trump can postpone his trials, I think he will win. While I personally dont like the guy, he is a better option than Biden for the United States. He is definitely a better option to help end this war.

So weep.

Ukraine are winning either way, and since most of Europe are looking more at self sufficiency in the long term, there may be many interesting times ahead.

Meanwhile, China looks to be on the move within the next three or four years. Probably with the help of India.

No you don't. Large chunck of the EU, so called leading countries like Germany and France want USA out o Europe. That is the bottum line.

Germany would be very happy to make a deal with Russia and China, kick USA out of their soil and Europe and F Ukrainie.
So if the crowd at home would rather have their BBQ with their buts planted comfy in their new homedepo furniture gazing at the moon, that aline well with the EU here.

@Ironside


This could not be further from the truth. Germany's entire security strategy depends on keeping the USA in Europe. Even under Trump Berlin hoped that he would be an exception to the rule of pro-Atlanticist presidents. Whether or not that dependence on the USA is smart is another matter, but this is Berlin's strategy.

As for selling out Ukraine... if you are still convinced of that, despite all evidence to the contrary, then it seems futile to argue with you on this.

I never said anything about selling...

@Ironside

I sort of agree with Ironside.

The only countries within the EU that are staunchly pro-American, and want to see America remain as a powerbroker on the Continent - are Poland, the Baltic states, and perhaps Romania.

Other countries, like Ireland, Sweden, Greece, Denmark are more transactional in their attitudes towards the US.

Finally, like Ironside said, the traditional core of the EU - like Germany, France, Italy and Spain - are downright annoyed by the US throwing its weight around. There are several reasons for this:

1) France and Spain are old colonial powers, and the US has done much to trample over their supposed spheres of interest - whether in West Africa, or in Latin America.

2) Germany and Italy are export powerhouses. They already struggle to compete with American companies, but they get especially *****d when the United States unilaterally sanctions someone that they do a lot of business with - for example China.

3) France, in particular, has a vision of itself as a leader of a unified Europe. Routine American meddling in Continental affairs, is humiliating to their ambition of making Europe self-sufficient in terms of foreign policy and economic strength.

4) These four countries have a more clear-eyed view than the rest of Europe, regarding the fact that what is good for the United States military industrial complex, or its energy industry - is not necessarily good for Europe. It will take Germany more than a decade to recover from the axing of the Nord Stream pipeline. Imports of American gas from across the ocean cannot be a real replacement to what was lost. In similar fashion, France has lost billions of dollars in export earnings for its military industrial complex, when the United States came in at the last moment to undercut France's offer of submarines to Australia.

I think France, Germany, Italy and Spain would be quite happy to allow Ukraine to be swallowed up - they simply don't want to deal with all the finger pointing from the US afterwards.

Of course, nobody cares whatsoever about what the UK thinks - poodle of America's that it is.