Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 7

Is this a joke? Buying landmark hotels in Mayfair and Manhattan, football clubs and owning shares of Western banks is a great "alternative revenue system".

For what it's worth, our government also has a sovereign wealth fund, and some of our oligarchs have also bought football clubs and historic hotels. Some have even bought newspapers, like The Independent.

However, at the end of the day, with 150M people - for the overwhelming majority of Russians oil plays no role in their lives. America also exports enormous amounts of oil, and nobody in NY asks to see his oil check. Contrast this to life in the Gulf, where there are zero taxes, essentially guaranteed employment, South Asian expats that do all the undesirable work, and a government that takes care of everything: from healthcare to funeral burial.

Which society will have a more explosive encounter with the end of the fossil fuel age? I'm afraid that no trillions parked in Western stock markets and real estate will be enough to save maladapted Khaleejis from what awaits.

Memo to "freedom and democracy" freaks:

If the 2014 "revolution" didn't happen, there would be no war in U today.

Working in reverse:

If Z was removed and a Russia-friendly government was installed, the war would end by sundown and my totally awesome Z-P=0 would be proven to be true once and for all.

Dying for "freedom and democracy" is as stupid as dying in the war against climate change, world hunger, or for abortion and trans rights.

For that last statement, I want a Nobel Prize.

@Bobko


They have also made many strategic investments in to various important companies across the globe. Invested massively in education, science and their own infrastructure. How much of it will stick remains to be seen, but it is at least something. Better than nothing what Putin leaves behind.

Russia is already a poor country with little industry and a decaying infrastructure. Now imagine how bad the future will be, with shrinking revenues and even less spending on infrastructure. It is all downhill from here.

In large part thanks to Putin.


You got it backwards. If Putin had not invaded, the war would not have happened. It was his decision that started this, and he could end the killing immediately if he gave the order to withdraw.

If Zelenksy gave the order to surrender, the killing would continue. We would see atrocities like in Bucha and Irpim all across the country.

Hey , logic genius, an event cannot be its own cause. Duh!


BS. Before you start shooting you need an enemy, genius. There was no enemy in Ukraine until the Western warmongers artificially created it in 2014.

Quoting the best source ever - RT:

The never-ending expansion of NATO has enabled the US to turn many nations into its puppets, helping Washington to cling to its hegemony, Nikolay Patrushev, the secretary of Russia's National Security Council, has said.

That's why there is war in Ukraine. Did you, Russia-hating a-holes, notice "never-ending expansion" or do you want me to post it again?

If NATO expansion is a nothing burger, the USSR moving stuff to Cuba was just an optical illusion and Canada is free to form a military alliance with China.

@Novichok

Your comparisons with Cuba and Canada have been debunked mamy times by now.

NATO is only relevant in the way that it would have prevented Putins' agression against Ukraine. If Russia feared NATO agression, it would not be wrecking its' own army in a war against a non-member.


There was no enemy in Ukraine until Putin invaded. No Ukrainian desired to fight Russia.

Putin asked NATO to make all countries which broke free from Russia defenceless and since NATO refused to accept such ridiculous demand, decided to attack a non member. Imagine if USA demanded that Russia kicks out Belarus from CSTO, remove all soviet equipment from Belarus, otherwise they will attack Venezuela or Cuba.

Putin is acting like he has the God given right to owns everything East of Germany because 3 decades ago Russia occupied this region thanks to the west betraying Poland and Baltics in Yalta.

According to papers taken in taken "Azov" paperwork, war was scheduled to happen anyway. Starting from massive attack to Donetsk with numerous casualties, and later "Too late to change anything, but Russia was unable to protect their worshippers" from every western (dis)information source.


What? And all that marches with Bandera portraits and shouts "Moskals to the knives" was optical illusion? After 2014 they completely stopped to hide...

Aww, Velund, did they tell you that on RuSSian TV? And you believed it...?? :D



Btw, in case you haven't noticed the war in fact began in 2014 and it was started by RuSSia.

Euronews, for example, is not so russian... I taken short video from January 2022 to be sure that it was BEFORE direct Russia involvement in conflict. You can find numerous videos from almost any of their "bandera parades"...

youtube.com/watch?v=Np6eyfb7BVU


What? Senator McCain and numerous politicians from around the EU that visited and greeted maidan in Kiev was russian agents?

No, no, no, Velund, please, pay attention to which fragment of your post I quoted :) - this is what I referred to:


So, I'm asking again - did the RuSSian media claim that?


Didn't you write that yourself on this very forum? :)) That there's been a war for 8 years before the full scale invasion happened? :)

Kania, for Russia it was the final destruction of illusions that it was possible to agree and coexist with the "gray cardinals" in Western (mainly American) politics.

Now it is clear that it will not work without global changes. To begin with, we will have to cut down on the American opportunities to print green papers, buy resources and brains from all over the world for them, and then indoctrinate everyone through information dumps about their exclusivity.

Meanwhile in the death cult formerly known as russia.... former actor and now state deputy Dmitriy Pevtsov says that what distinguishes russians from others is how well they die en masse....

twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1604098837483622400

I hope they will be given many chances to show off this special talent until they get out of Ukraine.... all of Ukraine.

There was MOD press release that was quoted in the media.

ria.ru/20220309/ukraina-1777222627.html


It will be your homework to find pre-2014 videos from "bandera marches" and, for example, attack of banderists on WWII Victory Day manifestation in Lwow...

Velund... and you believed it?? :)))

More than in that amateur show in Bucha...

I always have doubts, world is not black and white...

No, we'te talking about starting a war in Europe. It happened in 2014. Tacitus wrote: "If Putin had not invaded, the war would not have happened." In an answer to that you started babbling something about non-existing "Azov paperwork."

Get back to reality, Velund. The reality is that RuSSia started a war in Europe in 2014. RuSSia is the aggressor.


Why?? lol

It doesn't look like it. You seem to always have doubts, to put it mildly, when something isn't showing RuSSia and RuSSians in a good light, but when it comes to RuSSian claims about Ukraine and Ukrainians (and the US, the West, Poland) doing something bad - you have zero doubts and you always seem to believe the RuSSian narrative.

Root cause was a Maidan coup in Kiev. How Russia managed to start it?
Crimea and Donbass was consequences, after nazis became to overthrow local administration and take power in regions.
And Odessa Trade Union house massacre was point of no return - anyone who was in doubt realised that there will be no peaceful coexistence.

I can understand multipolar world, the end of American hegemony, turning dollar into toilet paper (or at least weakening its position as an international reserve currency) etc. OK, I get that; but why this war? It weakened Russia immensely and I still fail to see any benefits for her from it. Maybe I'm just missing something.

Persecuted Russian speakers? Well, maybe you could have brought them to Russia and improve your demographics this way, instead of turning the lands they live in into a war zone and losing so many soldiers (not to mention emigrants).

Even from a point of view of a Russophile (and a moderate Ukro-skeptic) this war looks like a mistake.

That wasn't a good enough reason to start a war. Not good enough reason for all this death and destruction.
It's not only Western Ukrainians who are paying the price for this war. The most affected are people in the East and South of Ukraine - the very people you claim RuSSia wanted to "save". It's pretty clear by now that RuSSia doesn't care about any people, even those you consider to be your "own" people.


We've already discussed this, you demagogue. This happened AFTER RuSSia invaded in 2014.

Not a coup and not in Kiev, but in Kyiv.....

russians don't understand people protesting against a government so they come up with all sorts of weird conspiracy theories (they did in the first solidarity period as well, I remember hearing radio Moscow broadcasts where they kept saying that Solidarity had no support amongst the population, a large percentage of which supported socialism....)

As I said, No Maidan, no war. Simple.


For the same reason why the US had Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan - the US felt threatened from 10,000 miles. Russia felt threatened from 0 miles, Simple.

@Novichok, so, in other words - every time Ukraine has a government that RuSSia doesn't like - RuSSia is going to invade Ukraine?

A personal observation today. In Krakow Rynek today, as every day has had, a contingent of Ukraine and Poles raising money for Ukraine. Another contingent stands and sings the Ukraine anthem. I have to say, I am tired of being asked for money for Ukraine when I simply want to get a coffee or some bread from the bakery. Today though, these students were being met by Poles who were very tired of the Ukraine fundraising and singing. Roughly a dozen men and women yelling back at these Ukrainian people that they need to leave and that Poland is for Poles. All wearing some t-shirts I could not read from my distance.

I made note of this because in Krakow, almost everything is quiet, and no one raises public objections to most things. Even LGBTQ things get little attention from those who do not support them. Todays observation was not the first I have made regarding Poles being less patient or welcoming of Ukrainians. To be fair, not all Ukrainians are making an effort to assimilate into Polish society. Over the last few months it is becoming strained, at least as far as relations go in Krakow.

Russia invaded in 2022. Before it was tango of NATO and Russia who tried to support their figures on chess table named "Ukraine" without direct and open involvement.

These are typical symptoms of social boredom with the topic of war in Ukraine.

We were already as weak, as we could possibly be.

By which criteria were we weak? Let's see:

1) Within the financial system of the time, we were forced to keep all our money with Western custodians. The minute we misbehaved, they stole it all. How can you be strong, when someone else controls the purse strings?

2) The very heart of our historic empire, was slowly drifting away, while holding up a middle finger to those of us it was leaving behind. It did this after stealing from us with impunity, glorifying the butchers of our people, and spitting in the face of all those who spilled blood for it. How can you be strong, when you do not command the respect of even those closest to you?

3) Crooked oligarchs funneled away the riches of the country, into Western real estate and football clubs. Russia acted merely as a source of wealth, but not some place where they could see a future for themselves. How can you be considered strong, when your supposed elites do not consider the country a place worth living?

4) A house divided cannot stand. The idea of Russianness was under great strain. The glue that binds the 190 ethnic groups of Russia, has always been the greater glory of the country. In the years leading up to the war, the search for a unifying "idea" did not bear much fruit. That path of inertia, was a path in one direction.

So you see, Kania, what was left on the table, was not much at all. Now there is a chance to build a proper Russia, in the time tested way of relying on our strength and not waiting for any handouts from the lords' table.

Also that is the result of Polish gov policies and propaganda... aslo of the atitude of Ukrainian gov towards Poland interest ...
Least but not last is huge Ukrainian prezence in Poland, that after a year has that impact ....

No, in 2014.


Weaker than in the 1990s??


Well, you earn respect of others by behaving in a respectable way. You don't "earn" respect by threatening or beating others into a pulp. The only thing you "command" then is fear and then - hate. And, eventually - mutiny, resistance.