Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 8

Those are the worst scum that is willing not only to die for a cause but kill you for a cause. These idiots gave the world WW2 because they believed in their "cause".

The general was just doing his job. As long as there are armies, there will be generals. They do what they are ordered to do. Volunteers are disgusting scumbags because they like killing. If they didn't, they would stay home. Would you invite to dinner a guy who volunteers as an executioner in Texas because he likes executing people?


The most irritating crap we are getting from Euros is their shameless claim that the US owes them because the US is "the world leader".

I'm not American, so it's not quite irritating, but more amusing to me.

Won't speak for Europeans, but can speak somewhat for Ukrainians.

They have no conception whatsoever of what the financial realities in America are. In fact, they just don't understand how America works at all.

Here's my experience of observing Ukrainians discuss America:

1) Obama years: "This Democrat idiot Obama, is trying to sell us down the river. Why won't he listen to real American patriots like John McCain, who know how to deal with Russia? These American presidents - they're not the same as before... Where's Reagan when you need him?"

2) Trump years: "This Republican idiot Trump, is eating from Putin's hand. Aren't Republicans supposed to be fire-breathing Russophobes?"

3) Biden (up through Spring of 2023) : "Thank God Biden has come to replace Putin's agent Trump."

4) Biden (after Spring of 2023): "This Biden is an agent of Putin, just like Macron and Scholz. We need a real Republican like Ronald Reagan in the White House."

So just like for Poles, the Ukrainian gold standard of an American president is Ronald Reagan. Just like Poles, Ukrainians think that the world revolves on the axis of Ukraine. To Ukrainians, just as for Poles, it is incomprehensible that Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden don't go to sleep, and don't wake up with only thoughts of Ukraine on their mind.

Regarding money - Ukrainians learned at some point that America controls the printing press, so from their point of view when America doesn't give money it means it's just because it doesn't want to. That's the only possible explanation, as far as they are concerned.

On a kind of separate note, about how clueless and schizophrenic Ukrainians are about how others view them... I've noticed over the last few days of "gloom and doom" in the Ukrainian internet, that the most common refrain amongst disappointed Ukrainians is that they ought to "show the duplicitous West the error of their ways, by joining up with the Russians and then truly smashing Europe." They really don't understand how this reads in Europe. This is even worse than threatening Europe with, "if you don't help us, our refugees will overwhelm you." But it's what they write.

The fact that Ukrainians threaten to fight under a Russian banner instead, should tell you something about their motivations going into this conflict. This was really a contest for the heart of Russia, between Kiev and Moscow. They wanted to humiliate us, beat us, and eventually control us (as many here said - "only Ukraine can decide when sanctions will be lifted"). The reverse ended up happening, so now it seems quite natural to them that they should be able to rejoin us.

...and lose the country in the process.
While we are discussing stupid people doing stupid things...If you look up "stupid"...- a person who thinks Russia will give CDL back.

@Novichok, Bobko, you are so full of bull crap lol:


Nonsense. That general was a regular soldier before he became a general. You think that he joined the military, because he thought he's going to be cuddling fluffy kittens in the army? lol


You're doing a heavy RuSSian projecting right now :D


First of all, it was RuSSia that started this conflict - Ukraine didn't "go into this conflict" - Ukrainians are simply defending their country. Secondly, you can't take some comments on the internet (assuming they're real and you didn't make them up or manipulate) and claim that it's the attitude of all Ukrainians.

I said it earlier in the war that all those Polish Twardys, Pioruns, Grads and Krabs etc. might one day be used against us, and some people here reacted as if I articulated some horrible heresy. I still think that this is a genuine concern. Ukraine is unpredictable, uncivilised and corrupt to the core; and of course their "turbo" diplomacy has many people utterly confused. We should proceed with caution when it comes to military aid in the future.

Can't wait for all the Korean and American stuff to finally arrive. We will definitely need it.

Oh come ooooon....."Little me"???

@Torq, could you explain it to me why you're taking what Bobko's is saying for granted?

Emotions, yes. But apart from emotions it is sometimes advisable to use reason too.


I'm not.

I'm expressing a genuine concern. Let's not forget that the ruling party in Ukraine is full of people who have portraits of Bandera and Shukhevych in their offices, and whose voters have been seen to display "Закерзоння" banners. We have to consider all possibilities when it comes to Poland's safety, and UPA-glorifying sickf*cks in power are - by any standard - a genuine concern, especially when their Закерзоння-banner-flying voters start phantasizing on the internet about joining Russia.

@Paulina

Paulina, people are saying these things - I'm not lying. It's an emotional response, no doubt, to what feels like abandonment by the West at this time.

It's a continuation of their little fairy tale of how they are the shield of democracy, and that if they fall Russia will carry on with invading the rest of Europe. This added element of them joining us, is just a further permutation of the same story. It's meant to scare you into helping them even more. It doesn't necessarily mean they want to put on Russian uniforms and fight.

However, that they choose such narratives as suitable to their purposes, should shed some light on how their brains work.

In reality, former Ukrainian citizens in territories acquired as recently as those in Zaporozhye and Kherson Oblasts, are being recruited into the Russian army. Last week, I read about a Zaporozhian battalion that had been stood up. So there's some element of truth, in what they say, except that I'm confident Russia will not be attacking any NATO countries.

That's exactly what Russia would say if they were planning to attack a NATO country. Maskirovka and all that.

I remember Veli posting links to statements by Russian politicians claiming that the troops at Ukrainian border are there only on exercise and that suspecting them of any invasion plans is ridiculous. You see, maskirovka can only work as many times before people learn to detect it. ;)

In theory everything is possible and everything can happen one day, but I'm also looking at the level of probability of something happening.


Maybe they are, but how many people and which parts of Ukraine are they from?


They're forced to join the RuSSian army:

iwpr.net/global-voices/ukrainians-forcibly-recruited-russian-army

Only stupid women do.

That general was in the army to protect Russia by killing Russia's enemies. That's on page 1 of their manual. Before joining, he read it and signed the application.


Just as American men were forced to join the US Army and go to Korea and Vietnam to defend "freedom and democracy" there. The US was not on the list.

I see that, finally, you decided to spell "Russian" correctly.

And you :)))


"By killing"? Does that mean he likes killing??


They were American citizens and it was happening legally on the US territory, so the US had the right to do that.


Look again :D

Do you read the articles you link?

Not one grain of evidence that people are being forced to join. The closest the article came to proving this, was by insinuating that criminals detained in occupied territories were made to live together in penal camps with Russian criminals already in Ukraine, and that this is where the recruitment allegedly happens.

The main thrust of the argument is that this is illegal, under Ukrainian law. That is, that Russia is illegally recruiting Ukrainians.

A separate question is conscription, since it's by definition "forced". Yes, former Ukrainians in Crimea have been conscripted annually since 2014. If you feel this means they have been forced to join the Russian army, then that would at least be accurate.

A conscript's term is 12 months. They are not allowed to fight at the front, but could do so if they sign a contract.

Don't you when the choice is them or you? No single soldier woke up in the morning and said: I will take a leak and go kill somebody. Actually, generals are universally against wars.

Except in the US...This is how they get promoted and later hired by military contractors.

My now ex is from Zaporozhye. Her two cousins (male), were commandos in the SBU's elite Alpha antiterrorism unit - stationed in Crimea.

After the annexation, both of them stayed in Crimea, and re-signed with the Russians. There they were put under the control of Russia's special operations command.

I was a little skeptical about this move, personally, when I first heard about it. Just seemed a little nuts, to integrate yesterday's Ukrainians so closely into our structures. But the people in charge seemed to know what they were doing.

Almost immediately they rotated these two fellas to Syria - as a trial run. Then they sent them a few times to places in the North Caucasus, and other places, but never Ukraine.

I would think this is the correct approach. Recruiting Ukrainians and sending them to fight Ukrainians is probably a bad idea. Give them jobs in the rear guarding supply routes and maintaining the peace with the population, and let the Russians handle the fighting at the front (with the exception of the tried and tested LDPR militias).

"with moves underway to send evidence to the International Criminal Court (ICC) for further action."


There's been many articles on this subject for quite a while now, not only this one.


You can only conscript the citizens of your country. According to the international law conscripting people on occupied territories is illegal - it's a war crime:

jurist.org/commentary/2023/02/war-crimes-as-warfare-russian-conscription-of-ukrainians-living-under-occupation/

"the occupying power is prohibited from forcing the inhabitants of occupied territory to betray their allegiance to the state whose territory is now occupied."

Crimea is not occupied. It has been annexed.

Get with the program.

Interesting interview...



The first man of the Russian Council for Foreign and Defense Policy, Sergey Karaganov:


nspm.rs/hronika/prvi-covek-ruskog-saveta-za-spoljnu-i-odbrambenu-politiku-sergej-karaganov-srbija-bi-trebalo-da-istraje-u-odluci-da-ne-uvodi-sankcije-rusiji.-u-suprotnom-bi-izgubila-podrsku-i-rusije-i-kine.-nato-je-maligni-tumor-evrope.html?alphabet=l#yvComment292287

Well, duh.

Wait until they let you into the EU, before being an ungrateful piece of sh!t towards Russia.

If you abandon Russia, before finding a warm place to rest your ass in the EU, you may be left with a naked ass out in the cold.

Also, Serbia is interesting to the EU and US, insofar as pulling it into their camp will **** off the Russians. If you **** off the Russians beforehand, the EU and US will lose interest in you. Gotta play 4D chess here, buddy.

Once you are in the EU, put in a good word for Russia. If Russia joins the EU one fine day, us and you will have great fun.

Me personally? No, I don't think so. I'd rather not be forced to kill anyone. I doubt I would "like it". On the other hand - how am I supposed to know this if I've never been in such a situation and I've never killed anyone. You haven't been either. People can have many different motivations to join the army and become volunteers. You're too narrow-minded, biased, ignorant, stupid and you don't have enough empathy to know and understand other people's motives.


How do you know? Are you a telepath? An all-knowing deity? Nope, sorry, you aren't lol 🙄🤦


First of all, one doesn't exclude the other.
Secondly:

No "secondly". I made it clear that what was happening in occupied territories was recruiting, and what was happening in Crimea was conscription.

What someone as biased as you makes "clear" is irrelevant. What matters is the reality on the ground:

bbc.com/news/world-europe-67368313

Why debate with me, then?

I treat your silly Polish posts as serious, and I respond to them, straining my brain cells.

If you look at the history of our correspondence over the last 18 months, you will see I misled you quite a bit less than your "friends" like Paw, Jon, and Maf.

I am Russian, I am "pro-Russian", I am "anti-Ukrainian" - yet I still try to present information to you in a way that invites discussion.

The main reason - to debunk your bullsh1t.


And I don't? I treat your and anyone else's bullsh1t seriously enough to respond o_O


Sorry, but I don't understand what you're talking about.


And you get what you asked for. What's the problem then?

An analysis of the conflict between Zelensky and Zaluzhny by Polish experts (sorry if it was posted already - I don't follow this thread much lately):

o2.pl/informacje/spor-zelenskiego-z-zaluznym-skrzypczak-to-zwiastun-kleski-ukrainy-6970445031578496a

Thank you for at least not denying this is the case!

If Zelensky follows his ego, and sacks his very popular Chief of the General Staff - the main candidate that is being discussed as replacement is Syrski - the architect of Fortress Bakhmut, and Fortress Lisichansk, Fortress Severedonetsk, and so on.

We in Russia, eagerly await the appointment of General Syrski.

Perhaps this post by a Ukrainian officer in reserve (@TatarigamiUA), will give you an idea why:

Syrski is our man!

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Why would I deny it? As the Polish article informs - this conflict hasn't been a secret for a while now.

And now, under the fvcking retarded leadership of President Biden, the US DOJ is bringing war crimes charges against four Russians who allegedly tortured an American in Ukraine. As if the American did not have a chance to leave Ukraine and stayed on his own knowing what the riskes were, and after the US embassy told everyone to leave Ukraine. This is another Biden manipulation to try to fund Ukraine. I dont GAF if it did happen. The fvcking idiot should have left Ukraine when he was told to. Now even if true, the DOJ is going to try to prosecute people who never stepped one foot into territory that would have availed them to the jurisdiction of the United States. If this doesnt stink to everyone then people need to get their noses checked.

The DOJ will do no such thing, at least for the time being.

Instead, the Biden administration will try to make the Republicans look like a bunch of cannibals that don't care if Americans get tortured. The hope is that the shame will goad McConnell and Johnson into action on the legislative package, without holding out until immigration reforms are included.

If the Republicans still don't bite, then the DoJ may try to bring the case to an actual court. Then the real fun will begin.