Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 8

Make sure they go here!

youtube.com/watch?v=kpFRF1QD9iw

Have you met anyone brainwashed by Russian propaganda?
What did they say?

Did you notice any difference?

Orban going to veto more aid to Ukraine unless EU unlocks more money for Hungary. This, like in the US, is what happens when you go to the well too often asking for too much, and not following orders. Where is the all knowing and wise Biden now? All the for sure support that he was going to give. Maybe he is looking at the US southern border and thinking maybe he should actually do something about it, or go down in history as the president who failed Ukraine and USA.

He's never claimed to be either all-knowing or all wise. His aid package for Ukraine will eventually go throug( though.

Orban is trouble; he doesn't like funding being reasonably withheld due to his constant assaults on democracy so he's trying to use it as leverage.

@jon357
Once again, you are putting too much faith in sleepy Joe. He isnt getting anyting without border security included, and if he doesnt act fast, congress leaves for vacation soon and he wont get anything. How does Ukraine make it to mid January with no aid from the US or EU?

Stable.


I imagine he'll work out a compromise. Just a shame that the nasty side of politics are deliberately impeding plans. Given that much of the funding is spent at defence contractors in red states, it seems the republicans care less about the people they represent than they care about grandstanding.

The important issue however is Ukraine defending herself against r*SSia. The orcs are choosing their places of attack based on the effect they'll have abroad, particularly across the Atlantic due to the issues with funding.

Orban has overplayed his hand and will be ignored - they will find a way around the obstruction and if it is not totally legal well let the Hungarians waste their time and money by taking them to court.

The Hungarian economy is getting worse while the rest of the region is recovering quite nicely.

If they want to keep voting for him fine, but sooner or later he will be swept into the dust bin of history just like JK and the geriatric corrupt fools we have been dealing with here

You don't get it. The Hungarian and German Business links are in the Billions, if not hundreds. Hence Orban can wave his d*ck around.

This is my feeling too. One reason they can't be suspended from the EU and can make trouble as they are.

More BS! Actually, they are doing exactly what their constituents want them to do. Not one more dollar until Biden secures our Southern border. The treasonous Biden could do it with a stroke of his pen but his extreme leftist puppet masters wont allow him. Hes certainly a one term President and an official impeachment inquiry has begun today:)

Its too bad you dont live here and havent clue as to what Americans think..Keep trolling fool!

Do you think they care about employment rights for the proletariat?

Hey, stupid, there is no such thing as "employment rights". Or "abortion rights"...

Nobody cares about what you think.

And yes, Ukraine will get a nice few more billions in funding.

...for another week...

War is expensive. Things not going the west's way is more expensive yet.

Orban can only do so because Poland under PiS protected him and kept Hungary from losing its' voting rights due to its' violation of the European treaties.

Actually its the other way around. We dont care what foreigners think, you cant vote and your opinion is worthless.

No money for Ukraine until our border is secure. Its that simple.

Tough.

The funding for Ukraine will certainly go through.

Hungary, unlike Poland, is an entirely expendable country for the EU and the west - its economy, once the second biggest in this region has now been overtaken by Czech, Romania and probably soon by Croatia. The army is small and unreliable and it has no natural resources except some pretty awesome wine. It can be shunted into a siding for a few years and then come back to the table once Orban has gone.

@jon357
No, the important issue is taking care of the USA, as they swore an oath to do. Just as Polish government representatives swear an oath to do. Ukraine is not part of the USA and never will be. Therefore not the US responsibility. Republicans and Democrats alike have a responsibility to the American people, and its long over due that some of them actually take care of that responsibility. Eisenhower predicted the MIC and special interests would control the US back in 1960, and said it would be critical to the country's future to stop them before its too late. Thats exactly whats happening now.

Working rights of the proletariat? You mean under the socialist ideal you have that the world should become. If workers want rights, then bargain for them. A $hitty worker should have no rights. Bad work, youre fired. Good work you are compensated for it. Mandating work contracts like in Poland will never happen in the US, it is disasterous for entrepreneurs. A system like ZUS again disasterous for business. You complain about PiS in one area yet embrace the workers utopia idea they wanted to create while gutting the middle class, and killing new business. Thank god, this will be corrected under new leadership.

Orban over played his hand? Interesting how that turned into the EU just releasing ten billion Euro to him today. Sounds like a strong play not an over play.

Yes, and that involves supporting workers and creating employment.


Why would a worker at a defence contractor be 'sh1tty'?


Not in the developed world it isn't. Companies do very well indeed in countries where consumers have money to spend. If a business can't survive without exploiting workers, then they do t have a valid business plan.

And you spelt disastrous incorrectly.

My whole adult life I have been listening to Westerners tell me I come from an "expendable" country.


Russia's economy is the same size as Italy's! Hahaha - gas station with nukes!


Siberian farmers boys won't go into battle without a bottle of vodka.

-------------------------------

Then everybody is surprised why Orban wins elections, and why his polling numbers are so solid.

No country enjoys being disrespected like this. No matter how degraded and weakened. For Hungary especially, its a tragic historical arc. They are even more suicidal than Russia, in terms of getting revenge for perceived slights. They joined WW2 on the wrong side, because of their exceptional feeling of butthurt.

Maybe treat Hungary more carefully, to preserve for yourself a good neighbor.

Oh Boo Hoo, b[tch..... you want respect..... then DO BETTER!!!!

I know it must be terrible for russians to try to come to grips with how awful their country has been and how terribly it has failed... again and again.... but why should low russian self-esteem be Ukraine's problem?

Stop trying to genocide Ukrainians, stop making life easy for oligarchs and tyrants, create a society that's not a total nightmare of violence and dysfunction.... maybe then you can get some respect..

Germany went from being the most hated country in the world and losing almost (or than?) half its territory to to a respected mid-size power (and engine of European growth) within a few decades.... no reason russians couldn't do something like that as well, unless they simply don't want to and once again choose the path of aggression instead because that's more convenient for the clique that holds the power of life and death over them.....

Nobody can make you feel inferior unless you help them. The problem is russians realize what a disaster their country is but try to drink the awareness away (or scream 'gojda' or just try not to think about it).

Do the work to make the country strong (without invading or threatening neighbors every five minutes) and get the respect or take another swill of copium and tell yourself what a 'great power' you are.

That's the job of the People - with a capital "P".

The people in the Kremlin, do not think in these categories.

The People must supply them with a strong country, making all sorts of wonderful implements of death in copious quantities, and sacrifice their children to the machine.

So long as Russia is just powerful enough to project power outside its borders, the people in the Kremlin will not be bothered with the goings on in Russia itself.

Correct?

then throw the bastards out! Ukrainians did that twice in ten years.... maybe if you asked nicely they'd share some of the secrets....

hints:

numbers matter.... show up in such large numbers that the police or army can't disperse the crowd

don't leave... maintain a 24/7 presence (not everybody all the time but enough to remind the world you're still there)

have specific demands (every successful protest is a set of specific demands addressed to those who can fulfill them) everything else is play acting

or... crash the system (more or less what Poland did in the late 70's though it took a long time, until 1989, to work)

Russian people are patient... long-suffering, but when they finally get pissed off then I don't envy their masters.

One thing that pisses me off in this war is that official propaganda on both sides is trying to pit Russians against Poles and vice versa (albeit for different reasons) whilst in a natural state of things (without "official" state sponsored hate-campaigns, TV propaganda nonsense etc.) Poles and Russians are very unlikely to be willing to fight against each other.

This war might happen - there is such distant possibility - but I doubt there will be a lot of joy or satisfaction on either side, regardless of the result. It all stinks. Like we are on a stage or something being moved by some fatalistic force to perform the deeds we don't want to perform... нет, ребята, все не так, все не так, как надо, as the words of the song go. :-/

Ah, well...

To be honest, I didn't know how much I liked Poles until I started reading about them.

For me, the key was the surprising sense of familiarity. Being on this forum now, and learning little bits and pieces about life in Poland - I am again surprised how eerily similar things sound.

We have been trained, for better or worse, to treat Poles as a very distant people in comparison to Belarusians or Ukrainians.

So for me it started as a teenager, when I realized that our gopniki have an equivalent in Polish dresy.

Then, maybe not more than 400 meters away from the Eiffel Tower, I saw in Paris a Polish trucker that parked his truck and got out to take selfies. One look at this guy, and I felt instantly transported back home.

The drinking habits. The random violence. The Byzantine politics. The desire to constantly find a way to steal something. A worldview disconnected from reality.

The more I learn, the more I realize we are truly brothers.

@Bobko

Agreed 100%. The sense of humour is similar, the fatalism (jakoś to będzie), the berserker courage.


That's exactly how I feel, and all the mafketises of this world will not convince me otherwise.

Unfortunately, I fear that the powers that be already have roles written for us in this theatre. :-/