Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 8

I do no really see any contradiction here. I do not have problems with washing dishes at all... But i cannot approve washing dishes abroad. In Russia we call such persons "sausage migrants".


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Life was absolutely beautiful in the late soviet union; despite some difficulties and economic problems it was especially amazing for kids.


No, they were not. There were no special privileges for ordinary members.


Sausage migrants....nothing to say....

Surprisingly enough, I find myself agreeing with Constantine on this one.

It is one thing to go abroad for a limited time, e.g. 3-5 years, earn some money to start your own business back home, or buy a house/apartment without being stuck with a mortgage for 25 years (my wife and I did it ourselves with our earnings from Ireland), and a completely different thing to emigrate permanently simply because of economic factors. In the former case, you go abroad for a limited time and come back with new skills and money which are then used/spent in your own country; in the latter case, you simply abandon your country permanently for better economic conditions.

Every person, regardless of current political system or their skills/education can do something to improve their Fatherland. You don't have to be a scientist, a doctor or an inventor. If you're a welder, be a damn good welder for your country, if you're a carpenter, be a damn good carpenter etc. etc. - work hard, be honest, and enrich yourself and your Fatherland with your work.

Exactly, And French aristocrats who were kids or teens during the French Revolution also remember that period with nostalgia. hahahaha

Do you reject the importance of French Revolution? Would you prefer to live during Ancient Regime with all those aristocrats?

This is probably too optimistic. Jacek Siewiera, chief of National Security Beaureau, claims that Poland has about 3 years until Russian invasion; Russia never withdrew their demands of NATO reverting to 1990 borders and Poland being a demilitarised buffer zone.

President Putin signed a decree recently, increasing the number of soldiers in Russian armed forces to 2.2 million, and is building 4 new armies the target of which is not Ukraine but eastern flank of NATO. Russia will spend 30% of her GDP to upkeep and develop her armed forces and some countries in Europe are still discussing whether 2% of GDP is not too much. :-/

Poland is spending 5% GDP (and in the current situation the number is likely to increase even more) but if the rest of European NATO doesn't join the effort and the US concentrates on containing China and reduces their presence in Europe, we will be in dire straits.

Russia had 900k soldiers when they attacked Ukraine; now - after restoring/strengthening Petersburg and Moscow military districts - it will be 1.5 million. Russian economy has been, at least partially, switched into war-time mode, and it's not what a country preparing for peace in the long run does, is it?

It's 3 years, gentlemen. 36 months. If European NATO doesn't finally wake up, the Baltics are pretty much f*ucked and the result of Poland's struggle to repel the invasion is unsure (it can be 1920 but it can also be 1792). Wake up Europe!

And what is wrong with these demands? Poland may be left as NATO's member but without foreign troops on its ground. It is absolutely honest and respectful...

Take your army. Come to Poland. We will explain.


Not according to your president who wants NATO to revert to 1990 borders (Poland joined in 1999).


You're joking, aren't you?

LOL
Then I see another constradiction here. Aren't communists supposed to be internationalists and not nationalists?


So Bobko is a "sausage migrant"? :D


Ekhem, excuse me, but I don't think my grandmother was in the US even that long and yet ConstantineK unleashed his contempt upon her :))


Why "sausage migrants"? You never wanted to travel anywhere and see the world?

You do no have any chances in any case and scenario... Experienced diverse army against solid professional Russian army which has wast experience in heavy military operations behind... No chance for you believe me.

Yes, of course... U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken and Danish Foreign Minister Lars Rasmussen signed a bilateral agreement in Washington. The US Armed Forces will now be able to station their troops and military equipment on Danish territory for 10 years. The US also gets access to three air bases in Karup, Skridstrup and Aalborg.

Finland and Sweden have previously fallen under similar "agreements". The Scandinavian peninsula is coming under Washington's direct military control (do not try to think about NATO here, this is bilateral agreements and US not need even to inform their NATO "partners" before doing something).

So, looks like US is preparing to switch to AUKUS mode to protect really valuable pieces of anglosphere, and will use their control over NATO to ignite something really big in Europe. Big war - big money...

Oh, really? I didn't closely follow your exchange with Kostya. In such case, he was talking nonsense. Besides, just to clarify, I don't bear any grudges against Plastic Poles... sorry, scratch that... against our Dear Polonia memebers abroad, but I just think that economy is not a good excuse to abandon your Fatherland forever.


I tried to shake with fear, Kostya, but I failed. Bring it on.


Well, at least we won't meet directly - you are a reserve tankist, as far as I can remember, and I am reserve air defence. I hope we will both live to see the end of this war.

Life is usually "beautiful" for kids (unless they have some really f*cked up parents"), because they don't know anything better and they don't understand much.


Well, not everyone is ready for such a sacrifice. Imagine living in some real sh1thole where there would be no chance for improvement and no future for your kids.


Not everyone is a patriot or terribly attached to their country. We don't choose where we are born. If someone prefers to live somewhere else and they have an opportunity to do so, then so be it.


What if it's not only about economy?

Do you really think so?


It was said that troops and all NATO's infrastructure must be dismantled. Poland may remain nato's member, no prob.


I see no contradiction at all... You are blending Trotskiy's, Lenin's, and Stalin's views involuntarily. Later communism does not reject the idea of bation and nationality.


He is a victim, i suppose....


There is a huge distance between traveling and living abroad.

Sure, but then he becomes a sausage emigrant and shouldn't resent the nickname. ;)


Unfortunately, it is precisely about economy in overwhelming majority of cases.


Hey, it's not Poland who is preparing to invade Russia but the other way around.


Hmm... you mean foreign troops? Because "demilitarised zone" sounds as if Wojsko Polskie were to be dismantled as well.

I live in Russia and see no any preparations at all. It is all about your internal preparations. Why we should? Nato will collapse after SMO anyway. Americans will leave Europe.


It is amazing to see all this adoration of the USA and Americans.

We adore America because it's awesome - great food, liberty, cool music, fun movies, world beating technology, basketball, the Simpsons

What has Udmurtia given us except amateur **** and gloomy novels ?

Do not mingle demands of unconditional surrender to Ukraine and demands to NATO in overall.

OK.

So what are you (and Velund) worried about? NATO will collapse, Americans will leave. So why the Putin's decree? Why the 2.2 million troops aim? Why the four new armies? Why the war time economy? Why the restoring and strengthening of old military districts?

Is it all because of Poland? Well, I'm flattered but it seems a bit out of proportion.


That's what Polish press were reporting. I read about it in Niedziela 51/2023 (a Catholic weekly).

It's not always about economy or only about economy though.

Btw, there were Poles who got "one way ticket" abroad, because of their anti-communist acitivity in PRL. How would you call such people if they made their lives abroad and stayed there? Also "sausage emigrants" or what?


Does "later communism" require contempt for other people? o_O No wonder that your communism failed...


And I didn't write anything about "living permanently". I wrote about "going to the US (and other Western countries)".


Improving PRL? :D My God, Torq, you're a masochist or what...? lol

Oh, definitely. Don't you see the difference between PRL and II RP (from which people were emigrating to f*cking Romania to find employment)? Don't you see the work of millions of people that was done from 1945 to 1989 and don't see the benefits of their work? 0_0

Why take Finland int nato? It is just response to nato actions. Who then approaching russian borders, is it nato expanding or russia?

Finns wanted to join because you started a full-scale war in the middle of Europe! In the 21st century! No wonder they wanted to secure their safety.

@ConstantineK
Any time the US has fully committed to a war, it has won. It is only when the US messes around and doesnt try to absolutely destroy the opponent that the US does not do well. If the US were to once again fully commit to a war in Europe, once again the US would win. Russia cannot win against the US and Europe, little Vlad has said this publicly many times. He knows it, but aparently some Russians havent gotten the memo. If not for the US, Russia would have been just another group of fvcking misfits trying to fight against the Nazi's. Lend lease saved Russia, so technically, you still owe your limited freedom to the US.

@Torq
36 or 72, it doesnt matter. Europe needs to wake up. Weapons production, recruiting full time military and training military and civilians needs to continue to grow. Putin is counting on the EU to remain passive pu$$ies. He thinks when this war is over that the EU will let Russia back in to do business in just a few years. Europe cannot afford to misplace its trust in Russia again.

Yeah, the 1980s were especially "optimistic" o_O What are you on, Torq? lol

Riiiight.

We are preparing to go to my Mum's place for Wigilia, so I'm off for the time being. Take care, Merry Christmas and all that. :)

There were in PRL though.

The hunger in Ukraine (and southern Russia) was caused by retarded Soviet governance, forced collectivization and the effort to export as much grain as possible to finance industralization and militarization.

Grain was taken away from the peasants by NKVD and the Red Army, without leaving enough to feed those peasants and continue agricultural production.

As a result Soviet Union completely fu*cked up its food production. Both pre-Revolution and post-communist Russia were major exporters of agricultural products due to large area of arable lands and excellent soils. SU on the other hand after Stalin's agricultural debacle became an importer of grain and it continued until its fall in 1991. How can you fu*ck up agriculture like this? Collectivization and dictatorial governance of people who knew nothing about the topic.

When holodomor was ravaging Ukraine and southern Russia (and starvation there continued on a lesser scale until the 50s) there was no mass hunger in Western Ukraine occupied by Poland, despite the fact soils there were inferior to those in Eastern Ukraine. But the governance was more effective, because it was done by indivudual peasants, not by communist ideologues.

"Never read Polish newspapers before lunch" (c)


May be true. The problem is that i cannot remember when they were really commited. Vietnam - lost, Iraq - lost, Afghanistan - lost, Ukraine - lost. Could you remind me any war which was won by the USA last time?


europe is nonexistent in the military sense. Americans will face insurmountable logistical problems and costs in this war. America is not in that shape to bear them...they will not defend europe in this scenario.


Really? I do not remember. He said only that Russia do not need and seek this war.


land lease comprised something about 10percenrs of the internal USSR's production output.

Sure, the ukrainians were so deep in love with Poles, so grateful that massacred them as soon as they got the chance :)))

@Torq
Regarding Polish second republic and comparing it to PRL... WW1 and limited self investing (obvious loss of wealth and materials and lives from ww1) was the reason and foundation for all the issues and troubles Poland had in years 1918-1939. People tried then and even to this day to strike political gains and wins by blaming the elites, system and whatnot. Truth of the matter was, Poland was economically ruined while also overspending on military due to the very realist yet futile need for a large military as a guard vs Germany and Soviet Union (which came true in 1939)

It was doom or darker doom choice, and people chose to make circus out of it, cause options were limited no matter what.

PRL times showes also that 1945-1989 it was Poland's economical and lack of wealth that was it's problem no matter how authoritarian or goodwilled leadership it had or drastic change of system or lack of sharing.

Poland simply lacked investments and possibility to be invested in.

Germany had a tariff war before ww2, during cold war it was more concerned with unification.

After 1989, investments were possible. Poland thankfully used the opportunity to it's fullest, regardless of SLD, PO or PiS leadership and control.

THAT should tell you something