Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 8

@mafketis
Another leftist myth that has been proven false. All items left behind were sabotaged. Otherwise you would see a ton of US equipment being used now and there is none of that. Maybe Ukraine should shop at the Taliban outlet mall?

Russia has some valid concerns over NATO. The failure of NATO to at least discuss those concerns is an arrogant position. While I would agree Russia is its own worst enemy, NATO is no innocent. Russia has more to worry about if a European nation decides to develop its own nukes than the US parking nukes in Europe. Imagine Poland deciding to do its own thing and the Russian reaction to that.

Why? Why are those concerns "valid", according to you? Is NATO an enemy of RuSSia? Is NATO planning to attack RuSSia? Why NATO is a problem for RuSSia while at the same time it has never been a problem for Sweden and Finland, even though those countries border with NATO countries too? Could someone explain this riddle to me? :)

Why shouldn't Europe make their own nukes PolAm ?

Who cares what Udmurtia thinks of that - the outside toilet empire can't dictate to the rich, free countries of Europe.

Britain and France already have them and you are always complaining that the famous American taxpayers shouldn't support us in Europe.

If we did start to build our own nukes and better weapons then the American response would be Don't You Want Me Baby ?

Americans threatening us with cutting off money is getting as tiresome as Udmurtians threatening us with rusty missiles

You make no sense, your argument is emotional and all over the place. Let me guess it's personal you were hoping to make a big buck in Ukraine and they screwed you over. Now you hold a grudge.

Be as it may, to add some consistency to your argument about nukes, don't worry about Russia and its feelings, they will do well without it.

If however as you say the US should bugger off from Europe, then they should bugger off for good and not attempt to dictate to Europe or a European nation what to do and what not to do.

In that scenario, whether they develop a nuke or not is not the US business.
Wouldn't you agree?

I think every country in the world should have their own nukes.
But as it stands right now, Russia would march through Europe in a short time without the United Sates of America (NATO).
One nuke on London and one on Warsaw and one on Paris and it would be over.
And children, Russia has more nuke's scattered around the world in their stealth subs than Europe could stop.
Each the U.S.A. and Russia have about 1600 actively deployed strategic war heads around the world while the U.K. and France have about 500 total.

Europe could not possibly stop Russia in a nuclear shoot out as the biggest hammer wins every time.
I like the rest of the Americans on this forum, have had a belly full of paying for Europe's security all our lives.
Time to let Poland have a couple dozen nukes to put a bullseye on their back and see how safe they feel then.
(My personal guess is that Poland already has them unbeknown.)
Careful what you wish for Poland and thank the Great United States of America for your protection at the American citizens expense.

You have two countries with nukes so what is stopping you from finishing Russia off and liberating C, D, and L?

If huge nigg@r standing on neighbour land points to your window from large gun, the last question you will be asking if it is gay partner of your neighbour, or just fcuking their wife time to time. Problem is threat from deadly weapon, the rest is just lyrics.


Not a ukrainian case.

Ukraine definitely planned to station US naval base in Sevastopol. Not hiding at all. Even three tenders was placed - for a reconstruction of school and hospital in Sevastopol, and some education center in Vinnitsa. Preparation for moving personnel there, after Ukraine managed to force Russian Black Sea Fleet from their bases..

In all cases, the customer is the U.S. Naval Facilities Engineering Command, which specializes in the design, construction and maintenance of facilities and infrastructure support for various branches of the U.S. Navy.


We've tried it, for years. The more you give in, the more brazen the Anglo-Saxon-Jewish hutzpah and the more desires.

So, stop here, rolling back.

• 
  school.jpg
  

So far the US has done a big fat zero for Poland. That is the point that most Americans are missing. Like hello, you were there spending money during the Cold War. Not for Poland's protection though, Poland was a big target of American nukes.

After 1989 Soviets fell, and those expenses were mainly to manage some facilities and bases left after the Cold War mainly in Germany.
Poland was admitted to NATO which is true but nothing has been done and very little was invested in terms of troops, money, and materials. It was a free ride for the US in this part of the world for more than 20 years.

Let's get this straight.
Yes, the US has the biggest and strongest military on the globe and yes it is a stabilizing force in many places around the world but that comes with a price tag. Simple.

Putting it as if the US were doing a lot of favors to an ungrateful bunch is not only a misinterpretation of what happening but a gross misleading slogan. Especially if you put Poland into the basket with the others. (those who were protected from the Soviet Union during the Cold War, who benefited economically but decided to go easy in its military spending).

Poland should help Russia to end this operation in what was Ukraine, as soon as possible. It would save many innocent Slavic lives, while more nazis would be punished. Plus, Poland would be bigger and would become a more sovereign country.

Sure, as it's obvious to me, not that Russia needs help. By its acting, Poland needs to be honest and wise and show understanding of Russia's stance.

You should bugger off with your daft advice. Russia has very little to offer to Poland. They could but they are not willing to, so the ball is in their court so to speak.

The US is in Europe because you are irresponsible a-holes. The US knows it and doesn't want another world war.


Good. When you become the 51st state, the US will. Until then, Poland is just a pain in the ass, a buffer state, and a landing strip.

To make you feel better, Poland is not the only one.


Poland suffers from the Katyn syndrome and is not capable of rational thinking about Russia.
Good post, Crow.

Yes, exactly. That's why it's not the NATO that is the problem, but your relations with other countries.


Not really. You were talking with the West over the heads of your neighbours completely ignoring their concerns and trying to make everyone care about your concerns. And your government has been treating not only NATO, but also the West in general like an enemy for years. I'm not even talking about relations with RuSSia's neighbours - because the effort on the RuSSia's side was either very small or non-existent (and this stems from RuSSia's arrogance).


What did you "give in"? You didn't give anything that was yours. As long as you will think that you have some kind of right to decide about the fate of your neighbours, you will never have good relations with them. Never.

@Paulina
If you had a neighbor who suddenly started to stockpile weapons, wouldnt you be a little concerned? I know if my neighbor suddenly joined a club that wasnt preparing to attack me, but was arming themselves as though it might be possible, I would certainly at least be concerned. I am not condoning the invasion of Ukraine at all, but concern over NATO surrounding Russia is a legitimate concern in my opinion.

@Ironside
I am not hoping to make a big buck in Ukraine, I am already set up to do just that in real estate. So I really dont GAF. America has done zero for Poland? You must have just gotten out of a coma. A free ride for the US? Again, lots happened while you were in that coma.

@cms neuf
Europe should make their own nukes. Europe should have a real military. And Europe should have been doing this preparation for the last 30 years. Europe should have been contributing to NATO as they agreed fo the last 30 years. I fully support Europe telling Russia to FO and having nukes. Then, the US wont be needed, and everyone gets what they want except Russia and accept all the globalist socialists.

Don`t you worry, dobri brate. When they see Poland aligned with Hungary and Serbia,... well, Russians would be willing. Sure they would. As Serbian strategists predict, Poland could gain a lot from this new architecture of Europe and the world.

If wise and able to escape corruption by the NATO and EU leading powers.

Why are you so active? excited and all steamy and flushed. lol! Is neither good nor bad it is just how it is.
----


LOL! Whavere man but let me counter - the US is in Europe because it wants to be there.
---


Maybe you suffer from painful joint syndrome? Poland (meaning who) is very rational about Russia. I guess you don't have a stalker, Let hope your alleged granddaughter never has one, but if she does you can always sell her your old cheesy nonsense about syndromes...

The one who is not rational is you!

That would depend on the situation (why) and the intentions (what for).

Btw, here in Poland we've been living with RuSSian Iskanders over the border. You can get used to it and live with it, as long as they're not falling on your head lol *shrugs* That's why it makes me laugh how histerical RuSSian propagandists are about NATO "encircling" RuSSia. I think I remember once how one of them (Solovyov, I think) said that it makes him feel like he'll "suffocate" ;D Those Iskanders in Kaliningrad can reach Warsaw, but it's RuSSians who feel like they're "suffocating" lol I'm sorry, but I just can't... ;D

A perfect argument let me answer with an argument of the same quality, validity, and import. here it comes -



---


WE don't need to prove anything to Russia. THEY need to make us an offer a serious one.

What offer? How when they see that Poland rides with NATO and EU against Russia? Poland is in the ranks of the enemies.


Still, the responsibility of ethnic Russians is disputable in ordering of Katyn massacre.

Plus, what about crimes western Europe, and the Vatican committed against Poland? One can`t selectively ask for historical justice and expect to understand his place in time and space. That is why I doubt it's about Katyn?

No, Poland now simply isn`t sovereign country to be able to decide for itself.

Oops. YOU should prove that you can be a subject of any treaty and can held your word even if you'll have event like Boris Johnson visit to Kiev suddenly.

For now, Poland seems fully controlled from other side of the pond.

If the Russian army keeps suffering losses at the pace it has been in the recent weeks, they might lose as many as 500,000 soldiers in 2024...

wydarzenia.interia.pl/raport-ukraina-rosja/news-miesne-ataki-rosjan-straca-nawet-500-tysiecy-zolnierzy,nId,7256441

... experts of British Ministry of Defence are of the opinion that mass conscription has turned the army of Russian Federation into a "mass of very low quality".

According to TSN television correspondent, Ruslan Jarmoluk, Russian soldiers are fed special pills against fear before their meat grinder attacks, and there are special units in the back shooting those who retreat.



If that's the case then how do you expect Poland to change her foreign policies?

Germany, the EU, and the US relieved Poland of this problem.


By declining welfare benefits from the EU and the US,


Because I am paying for the military US welfare Poland and Europe are on.

We are not expect that anymore, almost.... You had a brilliant chance with the help of birch tree near Smolensk, but you are failed miserably. ;)

We are still waiting for the Polish elite to have glimpses of their own thoughts, but it seems that if they do appear, they are thoroughly suppressed (either by the memory of the Epstein Island pedo footage lying somewhere, or simply by thought about the account that will be blocked at the slightest deviation from the Democratic Party's guiding line. ;)

You're not making any sense. But OK, I will go slowly again one more time. Let's see...

one...


two...


three...


1. Crow, Novichok and Velund claim that Poland is controlled from abroad, so Polish politicians are merely puppets in the hands of their masters. Right?
2. Crow, Novichok and Velund at the same time expect that Poland will make an independent, sovereign decision to make a U-turn in her foreign policies. Right ?

3. It doesn't make any sense to expect "not a sovereign country" to make sovereign decisions. Right?
4. Novichok says that Germany, the EU and the USA are making decisions for Poland, and that at the same Poland - not sovereign, and controlled from abroad - should make a sovereign decision against the countries/international organisations that Poland is allegedly controlled by.

WTF, guys? Could you at least think for a moment before clicking that "Post Message" button or will you just continue writing complete nonsense?

@Torq, RuSSian propaganda isn't known for being logical and making sense :)))

How is that relevant?

In Smoleńsk, representatives of many political options died but regardless of which political option is in power at the moment - it can be PiS, it can be the Left (SLD-PSL government), it can be PO - all of them see Poland's interest in the close integration with the Western economic, military and political structures. It stems from the fact that Poland is a Latin civilisation country and there is a natural tendency for countries of the same civilisation to form alliances within their own civilisational environment.

So we can conclude that either...

a) they (Polish politicians) are all bought for money, power, kompromat etc. and act against the best interest of their country and people
b) it is indeed in Poland's best interests to be integrated with the West

... tertium non datur, as ancient Ukrainians used to say.


No, but I want to understand what they want! How can we ever negotiate, talk, come to any agreement, if we don't know what on earth is it that they want?

Like most countries Poland is the complex one. How else to explain that Serbians are allowed to use Poland`s airspace when they import weaponry from Belarus and Russia? For sure some healthy magnates are still in Poland. Or take Poland`s post service which does not recognize Kosovo and all packages for Kosovo are sent to Serbia, then Serbia sends it to Kosovo as to its province. See? Or take Mizkiewich in the past. When asked by Czartorisky what should be done to make Poland independent. Czartorisky had friends in Russia, and contacts among Polish emigres in France, the Vatican. Still, Mickiewich told him to count on the Serbian standing in Russia, to count on Serbian resistance to AH and all that would happen around Serbia, and use the opportunity when presents itself. So, Czartorisky worked with our Garasanin.

Then one day happened Gavrilo Princip. Some told to Ferdinand not to provoke Serbs in Bosnia on the day dedicated to Svetovid. Some others told to Ferdinand to do just that. So Ferdinand said to himself `who gives a sh**`. Then Ferdinand died.

I usually do. Let me try again...

When a woman gets a free condo, a car, and a cc, she is expected to deliver. She can always say no and give up the three things I just mentioned.

In that sense, she is sovereign.

@Crow

Mickiewicz, Czartoryski, Austria-Hungary and Vatican should by no means be thought of lightly, dobri brate. However, if we could possibly leave them aside for a moment and concentrate on my rather simple question - What does Russia want from Poland? - it would be absolutely lovely.

I am absolutely sure that Russia expects Poland to remove itself from harm`s way. And I am sure that the Serbian lobby in Russia does have its fingers in it. Sure, ordinary Russians themselves don`t hate Poles, that helping, but, politics is the problem. Russia is also complex. Like the USA, like Poland. Like most countries, as I said. In Russia, you have a strong pro-German lobby, USA lobby, Jewish lobby, Serbian lobby, UK lobby, Chinese lobby, and French lobby. But ONLY the Serbian lobby directly affects the public opinion of Russia. Especially in times like this.

See, you can be sure that only the Serbian lobby in Russia, besides most direct Serbian interests, stands ready to defend the interests of Poland, too. After all, to our most specific interests, we need Poland on the Balkan-Baltic line. Like at the time of the amber trade route, which was, have no doubt, business of our ancestors destroyed by the Roman empire. Destroyed to us and redirected to western Europe. So, we tend to have good relations with Russians but we are not subjugated to Russians.

Other lobbies in Russia are just too focused on their own interests. See, those interests often include selling off Poland.

So comes the Hungary-Serbian alliance. Do you want a signal from Russia to Poland? That is the signal if you are smart enough. Are you?

Torq, I think that the goal of the Kremlin propaganda is to convince RuSSians that you can't "negotiate, talk, come to any agreement" with RuSSia's neighbours, because they're "controlled by the West". And so everything is always "the West's fault" and nothing ever happens because of RuSSia's mistakes in diplomacy, etc. You can simply blame everything (like RuSSia's bad relations with its neighbours) on the West. Also, if one convinces RuSSians that its neighbours are "controlled by the West", it means in RuSSians heads that they can do to those countries anything they want (because the West is "the enemy"). So - no mercy, no inhibitions, since it's about "RuSSia's survival" (because, of course, the West's biggest life goal and desire is to "annihilate RuSSia" :)))).


To do whatever RuSSia wants :)