Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 8

@Paulina
I live in Poland now. I am just as concerned about Russia doing something here as anyone else. I am not making justification arguments for Russia thinking the way they do. They are a paranoid nation to begin with. But, peace cannot be found until everyone involved recognizes that the other sides have concerns that need to be addressed. Ukraine was simply fvking retarded to include any mention of NATO in their constitution, absolutely retarded. It is like me saying that if I buy a Porsche that I get to sleep with some hot actress. The two things are not related in any form of reality.

@Ironside
I wonder where Poland would be today if not for US influence. All the US companies providing jobs to Poles. All the military providing a deterant to Russia. All the money brought in by American tourists. But of course that could have come from someplace else, yet it didnt. The ties between the US and Poland are very deep. Poland is arguably the one country in the EU that the US would put boots on the ground to protect. Make no mistake though, the US isnt obligated to anyone before its own citizens, and that is exactly the order of priority every country should have.

But you said Poland is not a sovereign country. So it cannot in a sovereign way remove itself from harm's way. Somebody - who's pulling the strings - would have to do it, right?

Please go back to my post #2,068 on previous page and tell me, dobri brate, which option do you think is true: a or b.

@Paulina

You might be onto something there, but I would like to hear it from our Russian friends and neighbours.

I am afraid that Poland will get used to the good things from the US and will treat them as a baseline and any reductions will be viewed as hostile.


Poland can easily regain its sovereign status. I explained how it can be done in Post 2070.

No deterrent. If the NATO-Russia situation worsens some more, Russia will issue a call to countries to go out of NATO or consider itself a military target. If come to this classical conventional war we see in Ukraine would be past. See, Russia considers Ukraine its own territory (and people) and Russians accepted certain casualties to achieve long-term strategic aims in Ukraine.

But if war with NATO expands outside of Ukraine there would be rockets, a lot of rockets, and tactical nukes. Then, if that isn`t enough there would be classical nuclear strikes. I presume, first onto the capital cities of NATO countries. Its logical. If that isn`t enough, there would be a next step. In the next step, all will happen very fast, whatever happens.

Before all ends, I believe, NATO will retreat from Europe, and would cease to exist. AUKUS would be activated. The EU and euro will be past. Rich USA magnates won`t risk their own lives.

@Torq


Duh! Their paranoid and trying to recruit individuals to their «cause» by spreading the information they have obrained (gossip, impressions or own thoughts only does not matter, it's valid in their own mind).

That's why you see them talk negatively, try to invoke negative feelings and try to make you feel disgusted by them. So that they can flip it by presenting disgusting information about their enemies to join forces. Shill brigade in action

Turkey gets good things from the US. Israel gets good things from the US.

Poland pays for everything with cash.


What reductions? Reductions of what? :)


You most certainly did not. You used some silly poetic metaphor of a woman, as if you were some f*cking Polack. Could you please refrain from using idiotic Polish poetic metaphors and simply write what Poland should do to regain sovereign status?

@Grunni

Possibly, but I would like to hear it from them. :)

Somebody must.

Perfect post again, Crow.
Western "democracies" are cowards. They are too scared to stop their own migrant invasions out of fear that they could be called racist or xenophobic.

No, they will not risk their sweet affluent democracies for Ukraine or the Baltics. Both used to be Soviet and life was good in the West.

A serious one. I'll know when I see it.
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Rather than complain can you make a better offer?
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No, you don't and if we take your claims at face value, why do you focus on Poland, Europe, and Ukraine, all talking points of the republican party, who paying for Israel and promoting LGBT ideas in foreign countries? Yet you are all silent there....why pick and choose? lol!

That is how things develop.

And, just imagine the horror when things become really ugly, with all those Muslim fanatics in the west of Europe. If just one nuke hit Germany, in a first wave after Russia`s warning, Bonn for example. I am already empathic with all those people in utter chaos in a country that crumbling, hunted by maniacs.

Or imagine the horror in the UK or Paris after Bonn receives Sarmat nuke. Just from the fear of a nuclear strike, hundreds of thousands will die in panic while trying to evacuate or in street clashes.

Nothing will be the same. I can`t believe that NATO, EU, USA, and western Europe pushing exactly to this.


The first signal to Poland was the Hungarian-Serbian alliance.

The next signal would be when Russia declare NATO as the final threat and issues a call to countries to go out of NATO or face consequences.

What's the cost of protecting Poland at the risk of nuclear exchange with Russia? Put a dollar figure on it in trillions. No bs, no essays - just a number... Then you can bs all you want. Number first.

1 dollar

Because it's not about money, it's about decency and behaving like people instead of drunken animal rapists

Then go to Nepal for protection. They are decent.
Why every time I read a moronic post it's always from some stupid Polak?

Yes, no bs, no essays - what should Poland do to regain its sovereign status? But no idiotic Polack poetic metaphors, please (see #2,079).


I asked the question first...


What is the US going to reduce? Their own nukes? :)

Well, we can walk over to Spain and swoop places with them. that the solution let make this walk. lol!
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I wonder I know one thing thought that it wasn't a freebie and plenty of 'American' this and that made a lot of money here. All East Coast enriched itself overnight after the Soviet Union fell.

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But that would have a serious downside of sharing a border with those French ingrates.

I would much rather swap places with Iceland - nice cold climate, beautiful nature and lovely neighbours.

Sorry man, but that is the Democratic party of the United States. Get your facts straight. Thats the freak show party that the EU wants to become if individual nations dont stop them. Companies are not getting rich in Poland, there are more people in California than all of Poland. There is no big money here that would be considered big on an American scale. Big money in the US is measured in the hundreds of millions and in billions of dollars, not in millions of zloty. I love Poland but you have a real twisted sense of reality.

Swap.


What a brlliant logic...Just like that wars are good for the economy...
If protecting Poland is good for the US, then protecting 10 countries is 10 times gooder. Right? How about 50? Still 50 times gooder?

Nothing like the Polish School of Economics...

Let's switch to Germany for a while (return to Poland later).

Why German government allowed to lose whole sectors in chemical industry and moving a lot of manufacturing capacities to US by imposing strict sanctions to Russia, while US continue "business as usual" mostly making noise with sanctioning some unimportant companies and persons? Decision to switch gas supply to survived pipeline, and German fertilizers industry would be saved, as well as lot of other... But no, period. ;)

Was it in interest of German people to destroy their own industrial potential and allow to move workplaces and strategic manufacturing capacities across the Atlanic?

OK, so you choose option 'a' (German/Polish politicians are bought and paid for). Very well.

It still, however, leaves us with the question: how do you expect countries controlled from abroad to make sovereign decisions?

Hmmm... 1917, if you know how to break simple ciphertexts ;)

Simplest variant in a row of many others. ;)

I expected this answer. :)

However, for 1917 to happen, people have to be destitute, downtrodden and hungry. In Poland they are not. So, we can cross out the 1917 scenario.


Let's hear them.

Well guys it's all very nice and all but let's get real here. I have been enjoying this thread, as I could put my arguments and my views on issues.

I believe that my view of the way is best for the US interest and Poland's interests as well.
We have here some poor souls harping about how they have to pay.
I must say that have been gentle and empathic as I'm sitting on the fence when it comes to the US and Poland.

However, I can put myself into the shoes of an average Polish citizen and that is what I think he would say:
I don't give a Flying F about your problems as you don't give a F about mine. You are not poor you can pay. I have my problems if you have an issue go to your leaders to complain there and bugger off from me!

Got it Novi?

This is no problem. Once US swamp will decide that ukrainians comes to a finish and new supply of cannon fodder is necessary, it will quickly come to this condition. ;)

Yes, genius. That's why I expanded on your wisdom...

In such case, it won't be 1917 but 1920. Polish nation will unite to defend their country, as they always have.

Give me some better idea, Veli.


So far the US has done no such thing. When they do some actual defending, then we'll talk. In 1939 France and Britain were also supposed to defend us. We all know how this brilliant idea ended.

@Ironside
And if Duda, Tusk or anyone else said that, the US would tell Poland to FO. Visa free travel to the US would be gone in 24 hours. The US military would be gone in weeks, and US business in Poland would be taxed to death making them pull out of Poland. You really dont know $hit about the US. If the US didnt care about Poland there wouldnt be a record number of US military in Poland now. You think Vlad GAF about Poland if the US wasnt here? He would be launching missiles through Polish airspace every day. Whats Poland going to do, fight Russia with less military numbers than Russia has sent to their deaths in Ukraine? Ignorant speach creates bad attitudes. I can only hope other Americans dont read your posts.

The first line of defense is credible deterrence. The US provides just that and it is not cheap.
For example, an aircraft carrier doesn't have to fire a single shot or fly a single plane to cost an arm and a leg just to be there. Duh!


This one does and wonders if Poles are sane. They sure are arrogant and ungrateful a-holes. No, the earth center is not in Warsaw.

About those sanctions...The single best thing China and Europe could do for the US is to impose sanctions and stop all trading. One trillion in trade deficit is a lot of money and unsustainable. Lucky Russia - forced to make things at home.

Have you been drinking? Reading comprehension issues? WTF are you talking about/ Novbi wanted to hear the voice of an average Polish citizen. So I have provided it. All the rest of the issues you can agree or not is not as you have heard it for the first time in your life, go out more maybe or maybe you are moving around certain circles.

Your attitude stinks and you have no idea how decisions are being made and how the people who made them think. Do think emotions rule the policies of the US? They read some obscene post on an obscure site and they will get offended by it and change its policies..

You don't have any idea about anything, some money-grubbing PolAm, has his feeling hurt because Poles do not kiss his ass fast enough.
Just take a chill pill man,..
Another hard pill to swallow, do you think Americans are liked that much everywhere? Nope, they are generally kind of disliked.
I have thought generally Americans do not give an F if they are liked or not but you had just emotional meltdown over nothing, are you sure you are the real deal? The biggest fans of America are Poles for some reason. It must be their English/American ain't that good... so lol!