Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 10

There are both.

I think it's not so important where Russians live, but rather what the electoral map looked like before 2014.

The regions where the "Party of Regions" won, are pro-Russian.

The regions where Yushenko and Poroshenko won, are pro-Western.

Roughly, this translate to the East, South, and parts of the center being pro-Russian. Then parts of Central and Western Ukraine are pro-Western.

The North is sort of a mix of everybody.

Is there a map at all?

I don't care about ways of achieving it. As I have no hand in it. If it was up to me I would find a way.

More russian sickness.... they dress up babies like wounded soldiers.....

twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1782650276316332524

What kind of losers want that sick culture?

@Bratwurst Boy

Sure here's two maps.

The first map shows, by region, what percent of population claimed Russian as their native language.

The second map shows the results of the 2010 elections, won by Yanukovich.

You can see the two sort of overlap. Russian speaking regions primarily gave their votes to Yanukovich.

An actual ethnic map of Ukraine is difficult to produce. Ukraine has conducted its last census back in 2000. In that census, only 17% or so self identified as Russian. The previous censuses in the 1990s produced totally different results. What it shows, is that many people transitioned from calling themselves Russian to calling themselves Ukrainian.

The actual number of people that have "Russian" blood, is anyone's guess, because Ukraine is such an insane mixing pot of Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Tatars, Gypsies, Hungarians, etc.

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Thanks....so blue means russian, yes?

That would make sense....the nearer to the border the more blue, in both maps!

@Bratwurst Boy

Yes blue is Russian.

The reason you see blue in the far west is because that is where another minority lives - the Hungarians of Transcarpathia. They also hate the idea of a Ukrainian state. They always voted together with the Russian-leaning segment of the population, in an attempt to ward off the crazy Ukrainian nationalists.

The region in the northeast and north that is blue has also been historically very pro-Russian. Long to explain, but they are also not confident in that Kiev represents their interests.

I wonder about that pro-russian stance of the Hungarians....to eastern-bloc times Hungary was like a breath of fresh air for Eastern-Germans, nearly western, heh:)

The Ukrainians are doing the same sh*t to them as they are to Russians.

They make them study from Ukrainian textbooks, and learn their stupid ape language - even though Hungarians never in their life lived under Ukraine or spoke their language. Also, despite the constitutionally guaranteed rights of minorities.

So Orban has the same problem we do. He doesn't want his people learning to love this fake new country.

As a German you should have sympathy for Hungary, because they lost more than you. 2/3 of historical Hungary is now in Slovakia, Ukraine, Romania, etc.

This historic psychological trauma still drives much of their foreign policy.

Germans generally love Hungarians....allies and all....yes, and similiar losses....imagine there would still be a sizable german minority in Ukraine. Maybe expulsion/relocations is truly the only way to really end age-old conflicts!

Nobody expelled them. I think you are thinking of the 1940s, and a different geography.

Most Germans left Ukraine, Kazakhstan, and Russia in the 1990s. A couple million.

Now they live in Germany and vote for AfD. We thank them for this. It's also nice to come to Germany and find so many people that speak pure Russian.

But these were not "your" Germans. These were "our" Germans. Germans that lived with us for centuries. These guys were deported by Stalin, during the war, to keep them from falling into Hitler's hands as Volksdeutsch.

Heh:) Ooookaaaaaay :)

I loved that with many of them there were still a dialect and cultural customs alive since before centuries....like a window into the past....adorable....but well, I digress....

They started coming in the 12th century, perhaps earlier.

Then when Peter the Great came, their population truly exploded.

Finally, they became our ruling dynasty, through Peter's descendants.

The reason Peter invited so many Germans, was to industrialize and modernize Russia - to make it able to compete with other great European powers.

So much history now lost....

The ties between Russia and Germany are absolutely unbreakable.

Look at our past... we always find a way to step over the unpleasant moments.

We have a mutual destiny. Brains/Discipline + Power/Resources = LOVE.

....can you see the Poles already looking suspicious and distrustful reading our posts? :)

We should definitely find a way to not make them pay for our understanding....next time!

Poles have a place in the picture if they stop sucking Uncle Sam's dick.

Well...different experiences, I guess....

Have to leave now....'night! :)

*takes helmet*

Haha, stop being so afraid of Poles! They know our closeness, and let them be worried - food for thought.

BTW, all what I said, does not mean I don't love Poland also. Schizophrenic as it may seem. Maybe more than Germany even :)

Why RU needs to be rewarded by its bully behaivior? IMO all that US needed to end this war is in 2014, sending troops to dissuade RU aggression or even better. Just produce and give to UA the same amount of nukes which they gave away from another deal broken by Russia and say that would't enforce NPT against any country close to Russia till Russia stops with Ukraine occupation. Or RU leave Ukraine lands or they will be surrounded by nuclear countries that hate them.

That is pushing harsh consequences for breaking deals.

A guy like Ronald Raegan would have done something like it but US in 2014 was ruled by the cuck of Obama.

Did you finish the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard? This level of analysis seems reminiscent of what their graduates produce.


Not even a drunk and high Reagan would ever do such a thing.

In fact, the United States would rather hand the victory to Putin, then recognize a nuclear armed Ukraine. You know as well as I do that that's the truth.

russian as native language =/= russian.....

Are the Irish actually really English? Should London bomb Dublin to gather in the English speaking Europeans?

And 2010 maps are useless and meaningless and using them as if they were relevant is intellecutally and morally bankrupt. how many people in Kharkiv are now hoping the russians arrive to relieve them of their lives and furniture?

modern russia has done far more to solidify Ukrainian nationalism than dumb old Bander ever could...

New US aid package will just kill more Ukrainians - Kremlin
Moscow appears unconcerned with the $61 billion aid bill

Reacting to the vote on Saturday, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said the US was using Ukrainians as "cannon fodder" and hoping to keep Kiev on life support until after the November presidential election. In the end, she said, the US will end up facing a "loud and humiliating fiasco on a par with Vietnam or Afghanistan."

The newest batch of US aid might help slow down the Russians but won't stop them, several Ukrainian officers have told the Financial Times. No amount of weapons and ammunition from the West can solve Kiev's biggest problem: the lack of manpower, the outlet noted.

They must be reading PAK's posts here...

BTW, I am for giving Z our tanks and artillery. They were never needed to defend the US.

Hey, Maria, why would you say this? V and A were successful. We got 300,000 new citizens from each.

russia lovers cry crocodile tears over the worthless gonzalo lira while remaining eerily sillent about russell bentley who was killed not by Ukrainians but by his supposed russian brothers in arms....

And something that gets neglected too often is that almost all of those responsible for the 2014 invasion (and those responsible for russian successes are also almost all dead, and many/most were killed by russians or the russian government....

And this is a recurrent pattern of russian governments killing those who carry out government orders...

twitter.com/ArturRehi/status/1782723725214765371

What sane person wants to be part of such a sick violent culture?

I don't recall you being invited...

Does anyone here know why the US Army needs tanks and artillery to defend "America"?

Ukrainians are being told that that's their culture.... do you seriously wonder why they don't want it?


America was the defender of the maritime global shipping order which benefitted the US tremendously...(until the neoliberal cost cuttihng order arrived to gut it)

russia and China want regional bandit kingdoms instead... and that's not going to be good for anyone....

You could try them on your southern border.....I reckon they would work pretty well.....


This is the thing, when Americans think about not defending countries outside of the USA they tend to forget the benefits they gain from those countries.....

That was not my question. My question was:

Does anyone here know why the US Army needs tanks and artillery to defend "America"? "Global shipping" is not "America".


Name one country the US defended and benefitted. In dollars.

Like this: The US defended Country A, spent X, and got back Y for the benefit of Z = Y - X.

We don't GAF about Poles in that matter. ;) No Brains/Discipline of Germany, No Power/Resources of Russia... A lot of useless "Mazovian arrogance" and a constant desire to sell out to the Anglo-Saxons as a battering ram to damage their neighbors. ;)

@Bobko
Crimea should have been the goal last summer, and it wasnt. Z didnt follow orders. It will be very difficult to take Crimea, but not as difficult to starve people out of the area. If the bridge is gone, people in Crimea will start leaving quickly. They were lined up for miles when the bridge was hit the first time. If it is gone, they will move quickly, presenting less resistance. But, Ukrain then has to get through other defenses and cut off Crimea completely which would take more than all summer in my opinion.

@Korvinus
Why would the US send men to Ukraine to die? Thats just stupid. No way it would happen. Its a Europe problem. What happens now when a billion in weapons arrives in a week? Who is there to use them? Maybe Poland should send 50,000 men to help? Germany? Or maybe Z needs to mobilize half a million more men like he should have done a year ago?

Russia cannot be pushed out of Ukraine completely. Its not going to happen. That ship sailed a year ago. This aid from the US will allow for some small victories if Ukraine mobilizes more men. If no more men, it only prolongs the war for another six months or so, maybe to the end of the year. And if Biden is out, then Ukraine has no other option but to negotiate, and Z will be either forced out, or he will run away. Putins strategy, the Russian way of war really, cannot be beat by Ukraine because they do not have the numbers of men to throw at the enemy. Simple math really.