Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 11

@Ironside
Jealous? Not jealous of anything Ukrainian, and I have plenty of money. Just looking forward to when the next US President puts an end to this war one way or another.

In a climate where Krakow restaurants are closing down, US presidents aren't in a position to end r*SSia's war.

No, idiot, but he sure end the one in Ukraine.

No, idiot. It's not his call.

Yes, it is.

No it isn't

Yes, it is.

OK, idiot, whose call is it if not the US president's?

Careful Novi, jon000 claims that he has never lost a debate in his life.
(Well according to him anyways) 🙄

No it isn't

Then answer Novi's question then


(Crickets)

You lost this one jon283
.

Yes, it is.

No it isn't.

Did you see the thing about President Zeelenskiy's messages on WhatsUpp ?

It is obviously Putin"s and Zelensky's call.

Though Putin has the most power over ending it. If Zelensky orders a surrender, many Ukrainians would most likely carry on the fighting as partisans.

If Putin orders a withdrawel, the Russian soldiers would fight who'd make it first to cross the border home.

The US president can greatly shape the outcome of the war, but he can not end it.

@Tacitus
If Trump says the money is cut off, and tells the rest of NATO that the US is not going to supply parts for planes or other items used in Ukraine moving forward, the war will be over quickly. The EU cannot keep up with ammo and weapons production to match Russia.

All the tough talk and still no one from the EU or NATO is sending their own troops. That says more than anything. This is Ukraines war, not anyone elses.

That's clear right from the start.


This is obvious. A group of trillion pound economies have had two years to discuss what would happen should the yanks elect a rogue extremist. Funding for Ukraine is as likely to increase as decrease.

The EU could still offer to buy those parts and weapons from the USA and send them to Ukraine.


We shall see. The EU is increasing its' output with every month, while Russia's is straining to keep up the current rate. If given time, the EU should be able to keep the Ukrainians in the fight. Not enough for any mayor counter-offensive, but sufficient to keep up the defensive effort.

As is Europe's main independent power, the U.K. it's been a big boost for the defence industry.

An interesting article here about Putler's latest rhetoric about ceasefires, decoding what it means and how he spins the fact that two years of war and hundreds of thousands of dead orcs have given him only partial control of 18% of Ukrainian territory, some of which he partially controlled before the illegal and unprovoked invasion.

telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/24/de-coding-putin-ceasefire-briefings/

Also, putain, lukashenka and janukowycz are meeting in belarus.... weirdness

Wondrous opinion, pulled straight out of Tacitus' ass.

Today, Ukraine has a state - a sh*tty one, corrupt to the core, and rapidly depopulating - but a state nonetheless. Yet despite having what they have never had in nearly a millennium, Ukrainian men seem to be spending most of their energy swimming across the river to Romania, or hiding out at home while their wives go shopping for essentials.

Tacitus would like you to ignore this unpleasant reality. Instead, he argues that once this rotten state collapses entirely, all these brave men will pack their bags and leave to live in the forests. Currently, they are merely biding their time. Preparing their hiking bags, and educating themselves in wilderness survival.

Sure.

No Tacitus, when your grandpa attacked, our population was daily sending several hundred of your boys to an early grave through attacks in the rear. For some strange reason Crimea, Luhansk, and Donetsk are very quiet now. Stranger still, Zaporozhye and Kherson are also quiet.


You can increase the funding to one trillion dollars a year if you want, but you will still have to convince Ukrainians it's worth dying for Tacitus's, Mafketis', and Jon's delusional sense of superiority over Russians.

This sentence deserves special recognition as a literary gem.

I just read the last 9 posts. As in the past, the pattern is the same...Americans and Russians are geniuses. Euros are annoying idiots. Some things never change...

Bobko, JR, and PAK...I want to thank you again for making this forum worth coming back to...
Now I will have lunch...

less ****** than russia, less corrupt and depopulating because of russia.... you guys really are like the plague... nothing but misery follows you


how is it delusiona? American and British values (some shared, some restricted more to one or the other) lead to much more prosperous, peaceful and happy countries than do russian values.

Hey, maf, save your banalities and generalities for third-graders. Sorry, third-graters, I didn't know where to send him so be nice...

I think Maf has a point!

Since my upbringing in the socialist GDR I learned that contrary to every state propaganda people vote with their feet, if they don't have any other choice!

And still it's the West people wander to, want to get a foot in, for many reasons but mainly to have a better future for themselves and their children. Not the former GDR or the current Russia.

Am I wrong?

(It's not about the problem so many immigrating people pose to these countries!)

And yet this state and its' people are able to hold off Russia for more than 2 years by now. The push at Kharkiv has been halted yet again, with hundreds of Russian casualties per day. Underestimating has been Russia's biggest mistake since day 1. When the world thought that Kiev would fall within days, the Ukrainians stood their ground and blew Russian helicoperers from the sky near Kiev.

As a side note, don't project your feelings about Russia on Ukraine. It wasn't Zelensky who was almost ousted by a drunken group of mercenaries barely a year ago. I get it, it is painful to realize that the one thing Russian thought they could be proud off - their military might and ability to conquer smaller countries - has proven to be as non-existent as stories about Putin's bravery.


Most of the fighting and dying was done by non-Russians on the Soviet side, with the Ukrainians making the most notable contribution. Their grandchildren are now busy fighting and killing your thugs.

I said - "if they were willing to die for your delusional sense of superiority".

Ukrainians have exhausted us Russians, and other CIS states, with their constant lectures about "Euro-Atlantic values".

Thankfully, the most boisterous cohort among those freaks, has successfully been recycled in the fields of Eastern Ukraine. That is, the Maidan activists and the early volunteers.

They are now either dead, permanently handicapped, or writing their essays from the safety of Barcelona or Prague.

There are very few remaining, who are willing to be partisans as Tacitus suggests, or willing to put on a uniform after a further billion dollars from the West - as Jon suggests.

You need retards that believe in all the magical words you conjure, for this war to continue in a somewhat interesting fashion. Otherwise, it is the slaughter of sheep that neither want to be there, nor understand what they are dying for.

Geography was never my strong suit but I do know that it was NATO that moved to Russia, not the other way around.

Would that be correct, jon666?

In WW2, you needed to gather all of the Polish intelligentsia, officer corps, and nobility... in one place and kill them all - if you wanted to decapitate Poland and make it pliable as a vassal.

No such thing needs to be done to solve the problem of modern Ukraine. It was never antagonistic towards us, instead it had a foreign body growing inside the organism.

This foreign body self identified itself, and plunged headfirst into the meat grinder. Now, three years later, its resources are nearly done.

Almost anyone that wanted to fight to the death for an Ukraine separate from Russia, is now... dead.

No potential partisans left. Nobody, who believes "Europe" is worth dying for.

Sorry to be such a party pooper today, but such is the mood.

Agreed! Since "Europe" is a quite abstract, empty word. I wouldn't want to die for that either....who would?

But your "Heimat" is something else...why do you think Ukrainians love their home less?

(What is the ukrainian word for Heimat btw?)

We have one common home. Their country, is the cradle of our country - it's where all of our history is centered (despite Novgorod and some other places coming earlier).

The Heimat is one. Think of Germany's similar dialogue with Austria, and Switzerland between 1850 and 1940.

The Ukrainian and Russian words for heimat are funny. For Russians - it's "Rodina". In Ukrainian, "Rodina" instead means family.

Rodina is a feminine word - most often translated into English as "Motherland".

The Ukrainian word, is Batkivschina. This literally means, "Fatherland".

So Russians have a motherland, and the Ukrainians have a fatherland.

Funny.

....and interesting!

Germans have also a "Vaterland"....

What happened that Ukrainians even have another word for their home....they are also linguistically not Russians anymore....have they ever been? WTF happened to that cradle? And when? Did the Russians move out? Was there a split? Where did the Ukrainians come from?

PS: Austria call theirs too "Fatherland"....