Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 19

Why destroying all that?

To do what? Rebuilding everything from scratch?

• 
  Natomap.jpg
  

It has served its purpose if it ever had one.

A reordering is not as big a problem as rearming plus it will make Europe more independent and the stuff will be cheaper.

NATO gives the US political cover which it needs but insults Europeans on a daily basis. What America gets out of it is a massive arms industry, Europe can build a better Arms industry without spray cheese

What a great idea...

In the meantime, don't call NATO "mutual". Even comedy clubs in America don't find this funny...Mutual, my azz...

What would you, Euro parasites, do if 1 million Chinese troops landed in Hawaii?

Let me guess...You would issue a strongly-worded disapproval of the US retaliatory bombing of Beijing.

Seriously?

What would you propose instead?

A European defence force independent of the US as the current setup only benefits the US.

If NATO stayed where it was in 1990, U would be U and the dead Us would be alive today.

Did you notice that Russia didn't invade Mongolia, Kazakhstan, or Finland?

NATO was there before Trump and most probably will still be there after he is gone.

Isn't it a tad prematurely to destroy a whole decades old trusted (with mainland Europeans that is) organization because of one temporary change in one members leadership?

NATO without the US is not a threat to Russia.

All Russia would have to do is watch how Europe commits suicide by migrants, woke morons, and greens. No need to invade.

@Bratwurst Boy
It holds Europe back. I've thought this before trump 1 and 2

I could imagine lots of these young men will be put to work in the new-to-be-build-army....now that would be a perspective which could help to control immigration in the end! :)


Look at the map, Barney....NATO without the US more or less IS Europe!

From RT.com:

Zelensky calls for 'TRUCE' in sky and at sea, insists he is 'ready to work under' Trump and 'regrets' White House row

Pleeeease, DON"T!!!!

Do what that Polish POS moron, Lech Walesa, did and call Trump the worst idiot around. Or follow the cuntdodger and tell Trump that he is a rapist.

This will end the war faster than you can imagine...

@cms neuf
Another dumb answer. No weapons made by the US or containing US components, or US designs will be allowed to go to Ukraine. So again who TF has the capability to replace the US? The real answer....NO FVCKING BODY

When Ursula Vandercunt wants to give loans to Ukraine that have to be repaid its ok, but when the US wants to be repaid its not. See how fvcked the EU double standard is?

Building weapons, and weapons stockpiles to fight Russia without the US will take Europe decades. There are no factories, no designs, not enough people to build them, and that doesnt even address the complete lack of manpower in every European military. But have at it boys and girls. The EU will still buy from the US because it will have no other choice.

What makes you say that?

Some actual numbers:

.....In 2023, more than 80% of defence investments, some €61 billion, were allocated to the procurement of new defence products.

.....

Total spending on defence research and development, which includes any payments up to the point where expenditure on production of items starts, reached €11 billion in 2023 (6% more than in 2022) and €13 billion in 2024.

.....

This growth trend was evident across all three key sectors:

military aeronautics: €64.8 billion turnover (+15.8%)
naval: €37.9 billion (+17.7%)
land: €56.2 billion (+17.7%)

European military exports reached €57.4 billion in 2023, up 12.6% from 2022.

The European defence industry saw a substantial increase in employment in 2023, with the total number of jobs reaching 581 000. This was an 8.9% increase compared to the previous year.

....

consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/defence-numbers/

....and thats only a few numbers.....and all are pointing up!

And thats not only one country....it's a whole continent....

Again you are wrong about everything, all of the time

The US imports significant amounts of European weapons, uses many European designs and produces European products under license

In terms of sophisticated defence the US and Europe rely heavily on each other

@Bratwurst Boy
European weapons manufacturers are second to none. We have to build SAMs and expand Galileo

....and I think we will. Most what was seen as not-practicable or to expensive a year back will now be moved forward...because we have to!

@Bratwurst Boy
Yip

Europe is the most technogically advanced continent. Who has the most advanced research centre in the world with the first anti-matter factory in the world (CERN)? Europe! Who is currently building the largest telescope in the world with a 39-metre main mirror? Europe! We have top-tier technical schools and throngs of brilliant engineers and both theoretical and experimental physicists - it's time to put their potential to more use (and invest even more into science).

To paraphrase: "I fear all that the orange-skinned caveman has done is to awaken a sleeping giant!".

@Bratwurst Boy
Nice numbers indeed. Where are all the missiles coming from? Europe didnt have much to give to Ukraine. How about planes? Europe does not have the capacity to replace the production and supply of weapons to Ukraine while at the same time building stockpiles for a future war with Russia. The EU militaries are also too small.

@cms neuf
So why didnt the EU take care of Ukraine again? Because it couldnt. Without the US, the European militaries dont have much.


More like waking up an old man from his 30 year nap. I agree though, long over due for Europe to wake up. Lets see what happens if the US leaves NATO, and there is not one EU politician who isnt talking about and scared to death of that happening. It is exactly why every EU leader has said, peace in Ukraine means nothing without the backing of the US.

All the name calling of Trump and Putin and Russia really just shows how immature people are who keep resorting to this infantile behavior. And thats exactly one of the points Trump made to Z. You cant talk about people, and call them names and then think they will come to the table in a good mood or will help. The volume of simply stupid statements and sayings here is exactly why this forum is dying.

Happy gulag ***** :)

I can see Britain, France, Germany and Italy stopping that if President Musk tries to play hardball with us.

Plus of course any equipment currently in Poland waiting to cross the border should cross it and not rot in transit due to games by Musk and Putler's orange bum chum.

Let's see...

USA infantry (Active Military Personnel): 1.33 million
Europe (European NATO) infantry: 2.03 million (and increasing, especially in a certain European country he he)

Also, demographic potential is in favour of Europe: there are about 600 million people in European NATO and 345 million in the USA, and wars, as we all know, are won by reservists. :)

Winner: Europe

USA - Main Battle Tanks: about 4600
Europe - Main Battle Tanks: 6500 (but there is way more coming to a certain European country soon he he)

Winner: Europe

USA - combined artillery pieces: around 2700
Europe - combined artillery pieces: around 2500-3000 - fewer rocket launchers than USA but a strong SPG fleet
(but there is way more artillery coming to a certain European country soon he he)

Winner: let's call it a draw

You keep talking as if Europe was some kind of military dwarf compared to the US. It's not. And now we will be beefing up every single branch of our armed forces whilst your genius of a President says he wants to leave NATO (and fight China on your own presumably). Good luck with that and Happy Gulag B*tches! :)

....from a strategically viewpoint it has been always alot smarter for any US leadership to play around with the ultimate dependence of Europe and use it to their own advantage.

To force Europe to rectify that might prove middle- to long term as one big political blunder for the US....in later history books that is!

@Barney
And I would still use the saying if there was any chance of Ukraine winning. Which there is not.

@Torq
Your numbers are off, and some make no sense.

Why would the US need battle tanks? Never on home soil because no one is invading. And just how old are these European tanks? How many were made by the US?

If wars are won by reservists, the US has about 800K reservists in part time status in the US. Its the citizens that any delusional invading force would have to worry about. Not so in Europe.

Maybe you should acquaint yourself with these facts: armedforces.eu/compare/country_European_Union_EU_vs_USA

Important to note that the US Coast Guard is not included in these numbers as indicated by the ship count and the US dwarfing every other nation with 20 aircraft carriers. Lets also not forget the volume of retired military equipment in the US, only rivaled by what Russia had.

Again, if Europe is so great, they dont need the US in NATO and they dont need the US to help Ukraine. Goodby and good luck is exactly what the US should say to the EU and Ukraine. But we all know that the EU would collectively $hit its pants without the US. And Ursula Vandercunts new EU military ideas are great until the politicians get involved and they actually have to determine where the money goes. I wonder how many will object when Germany is the primary beneficiary of these things?

What Europe? You mean German EU? German EU reminds somewhat of the HRI, not the American Union.
What's in it for Poland? not much? It is better to stick with the US and Trump.
By the way some people posting here do not realize what power the US is.

I guess the "performance" recently in the Oval Office has shown weaker countries what exactly would be innit for them when they "stick" with Trump!

That turned quite a few heads....I wouldn't underestimate the consequences.

"Trump Won't Forgive This" - Andrew Tate DESTROYS Zelenskyy Over Oval Office MELTDOWN!

I wouldn't be overreacting. Politics is not about gentleman agreements nor charity but about interest and reality.
Trump is open about it, that is a big change but nothing else changed except for liberal elites in Europe losing their American backers.
Poland needs an ally like the US. The German EU already showed what Poland can expect from them. I think it is a pretty obvious choice at the moment.
----
By the way, Ukraine still can have a deal with the US provided Zelesky and his crew will go.

Yes, but Russian strategists play chess, Chinese strategists play go (wéiqí), European strategists play bridge, and American strategists, who used to be our bidding partners, have started playing rock, paper, scissors recently.

When it comes to strategy (and as you know I am a brilliant amateur strategist myself) we will witness complete and utter chaos in the coming years but then everything will stabilise under wise European lead.


Hey, those numbers were given to me by top-notch American AI. Are you saying it's sh*t and I should try something European?


So brilliant, so witty, so intelligent!


Nope. Wrong again. You can f*ck off tomorrow and don't let the door hit you on the way out. Also, when China finally takes over Taiwan and turns dollar into toilet paper don't come crying back to us for help. Actually, Euro and Yuan will be very good partner reserve world currencies. Happy gulag b*tches!

*nods* Of course! :)


...okay....but the same question stands.....why should Trump care about Poland?

(tries to avoid questions from yesterday)

Do you think Poland could have the same kind of voice with Trump as it would have in a renewed Weimar Triangle?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Triangle