Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 28

Interesting!!!


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It is great news and for that reason I doubt anybody has told Putler yet. He still thinks North Nigerian "special forces" (elite dipsomaniac scum) are 15km away from Zaporizhzhia

What a waste of young lives - each of those km cost hundreds of farm boys their existence and now all for nothing.

....losing so much former conquered territory would be for any army a warning signal...it could truly mean the turning of the tides!

Yes certainly dispiriting for the NNs to retreat back over land that they won at such a cost. Hopefully they will start to point their crappy old guns at their own corrupt commanders

Find a russian who cares about dead russian soldiers.... I dare you.

You will not find such a Russian because Russia has good teachers who teach children that dulce et decorum est pro patria mori and all that. As His Excellency Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin President of the Russian Federation likes to say: "Wars are not won by commanders but by school teachers".

Luckily, Poland has Pawian and me in her teachers' corps, so we're pretty safe. ;)

Gówna jest, pro patria mori.

Mind your Latin, Jonno!

You Brits tend to be so vulgar it's unbelievable. No wonder Russians think you're barbarians.

I don't even know where to begin with this one..

"schoolchildren staged a military-themed performance inside the Saints Peter and Paul Church near Moscow"

x.com/nexta_tv/status/2023742980494942622

I've been wondering about.... what passes for morality in russia? In Poland there's historically been both Christianity (esp RC church) and general western moral philosophies....

I can't find much moral.... anything in the russian orthodox church and even less in communism or in its imperial ideology....

So, when I ask 'what does being a good person mean in russia?' the answer that comes back is usually a blank.... the only thing that really stands out is an idea that unquestioning obedience is good... which is very depressing.

Correct - the only thing they care about is where the next drink is coming from

Interesting.


In Russia, the Orthodox Church (M.P.) and Western philosophers... definitely play a less important role in the origins of the national moral system of coordinates.

Here you are correct.

In Russia, the moral "bedrock" of the people was historically the "Obschina" (Община) - or the Collective.

So... in a context were the climate is harsh and serfdom is brutal - being a "good person" meant prioritizing the group over the individual.

In a similar way, being largely without any rights - there is a deep seated Russian distinction between Zakon (the state's codified laws) and Pravda (divine or moral truth/justice). A "good person" follows Pravda, even if it means breaking the Zakon.

-//-

Next after "peasant decency", in the building of national ethics, are the authors. In Russia, authors fulfilled the role of moral prophet, in a context where the Church was rotten through and through with corruption.

People like Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy, distilled what it meant to be a "good Russian". You became good not through "following the rules", but through suffering and compassion (страдание и сострадание).

They also framed how a member of the Russian intelligentsia was expected to act. That is, with a disdain for petty bourgeoisie comforts (meschantstvo), and an almost religious duty to care for the uneducated and the peasantry. This paternalistic attitude both hurt and helped the Russian peasantry throughout history.

-//-

Finally, in the freshest form - Russian modern morals come from a Soviet-era sense of "Decency" (yes, with a capital D). In Russian the word for it is Порядочность.

Being a "good comrade" meant reliability and horizontal loyalty to your circle of friends, often in opposition to a cold, vertical State understood by all to be the "Enemy".

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So, in a nutshell - being "good" in Russia, means not thinking about yourself, being willing to sacrifice, and to suffer.

Being somewhat economically-minded, I can see that this kind of moral framework places Russia at significant disadvantage to an "individualist" West.

Without respect for the individual, his rights, his views, and his property - we cannot hope to build as vibrant or as innovative an economy as those possessed by Western states.

At the same time, this characteristic is what had saved Russia in many past instances.

Hard to say what's more important...

What's the big deal? The boys look 14-15 years old. In Poland you have playschool kids (4-5 year old) singing "Wojenko, wojenko" at the Independence Day assembly (I even posted links to videos once). There is nothing wrong in instilling patriotism in younger generations, even if it's connected with military symbolism. It would be wrong to teach hatred towards other nations, but to teach love for and pride of one's fatherland definitely isn't.

As far as morality is concerned, Slavs are generally more collectivist and solidarity-oriented than Western nations, who tend to be more selfish and individualistic in their approach to moral values. Which attitude is more Christian is open to debate, I suppose. Should we place more emphasis on individual freedom of God's children or more on mutual love, care and communal cohesion? Ideally, a Christian society would encompass both Western and Eastern values, and it happens - in my opinion - to the greatest extent in Poland. We are both Latin and Slavic - encompassing most of the good and some of the bad elements of both.

I ignored this completely.

In America, the Scouts have a much older history - and it is also a quasi military organization.

In Ukraine nationalist parents send their children to become Plastuny, by joining the Plast started in Austria-Hungary.


This...

I'm thankful you wrote this, because I wasn't sure if this is something that only applies to Belarusians, Russians, and Ukrainians.

The Catholicism, the Magdeburg rights for the cities, the German kings - made me think that maybe Poland does not share this connection.

It is good to know it causes an echo in your heart.

Czechs and Slovaks are the same, and all I know about Yugoslavs tells me that they're similar to us in this regard too. Moreover, I would say that the cultural influence of greater Slavia extends also over non-Slavic countries in our midst - Hungarians, Romanians, nations of the Caucasus and the Baltics.


It is my wish and dream that somehow - by a true Divine miracle - one day there is again peace and concord among all our brotherly nations. Meanwhile, let's try to practice forgiveness, restraint, and goodwill in the confidence that no division is beyond the reach of God's grace.

Damn, it sounded way more solemn than I intended! Let me rephrase it: before peace reigns among the children of Slavia, let's try not to be more retarded than absolutely necessary. :)


... and Central Asia as well.

Human safaris

Bombing kids in their beds

Bucha

Shooting prisoners

Firing missiles at civilian buses

We've discussed it ad nauseam, Cms. This war, as far as atrocities against civilians are concerned, is not much different than any other war started by the USA/Israel, with the exception that there are far fewer civilian victims than in Iraq, Afghanistan or Gaza. Certainly in this respect we cannot claim moral high ground.

But it is Ukraine fighting this war, not the USA/Israel

As nauseam is the right word - these atrocities are sickening and it is surreal that you want to debate the Slavic soul complete with references to Dostoyevsky and Turgenev

Putler and his army of drunk rapists are determined to drag Europe back to 1942

So? Are Ukrainian civilian casualties somehow worse than Iraqi, Afghan or Palestinian?


What's more important than a soul, Cms? Ask yourself this question honestly.


Hey, I am no more a fan of Putin than you are. Still, it doesn't change the fact that there are far fewer civilian victims of this war than of wars in Iraq, Afghanistan or Ghaza. So, where's your sense of moral superiority coming from?

And it would have been so much easier and better for them and everyone else not to invade. They could have had cordial relations with an affluent neighbour and leased some land for a base in Crimea.

You are comparing wars here that are not comparable. Civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq were very low during the inititial invasion. The insurgencies after the regimes were toppled got most civilians killed. In Gaza, there was one side (Hamas) whose entire modus operandi consisted of getting as many civilians (both Palestinian and Israelian) killed as possible. The fighting took place in densely populated areas with next to no room for the people to escape.

High civilian casualty rates were inevitable in those conflicts.

Meanwhile the Ukrainian government does its' utmost to reduce civilian casualties by a) providing shelters to civilians and b) evacuate towns before they become contested.

And even then, it is very likely that the civilian death toll is significantly higher than what has been reported so far. Because we dont have reliable data about the territories that are under Russian controle and it will only be possible to fully grasp the full consequences of Russia's terror attacks when we know the excess deaths of the previous years.

From the fact that I have not committed foul and depraved war crimes

Good for you. Keep up the good work.

Make sure also that you don't commit the sin of hating your brother...

"Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."
- 1 John 3:15

It looks the war will continue for another year. Ukraine will get the EU / US support for maintenance in the hopes Russia goes bankrupt.

Can you imagine Polish 14-15 year olds presenting something like that in a Catholic church? Aimed at a statue of Mary (for example)?

I can't....

In 2025 the US support fell by 95%

Russia is fvcked part 24;



Russia is fvcked part 25..... how much more evidence do you Russophiles need?



Even Russians are now saying that Russia has lost this war.....

Russia is fvcked part 26.

I must say you have a rather poor imagination, Maf.

It is entirely plausible for 14-15-year-old boys to perform a weapon-related presentation in or near a Catholic church, even directed symbolically toward a Marian statue. It would not be understood as aggression, but as ritualized expressions of honor, protection, or patriotic piety.

How much time did you spend in Poland? Ever heard of Bractwa Kurkowe? We have one in Gdańsk - they date back to 14th century, youth participation is common (apprentices and older boys trained alongside men), members appear in churches in full regalia, firearms are blessed during Mass and ceremonial salutes were performed in connection with religious feasts. Their presence in churches is normal and socially sanctioned.

I can give you other examples if you wish. Nothing extraordinary in it.

You are comparing bractwa kurkowe to this ?

I don't see many boys doing that - mainly older guys and in any case I disapprove of hunting too.

There is certainly no comparison between a few old guys hunting boar and the official Orthodox Church encouraging nighttime murder of civilians, human safaris and rape and theft of their neighbors

No, I compared 5-year-olds singing "Wojenko, wojenko" at playschool to this.

However, Maf couldn't imagine weapons-related shows at churches, so...


If we didn't hunt foxes, for example, the population of hare would disappear completely. Regulated hunting is actually beneficial to nature.


This is, of course, nonsense. Try not to let hatred cloud your judgement too much, Cms.