Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 29

But we are comparing Ukraine's attack on an oil refinery with the North Nigerian war crimes of bombing civilians - both took place last week

I don't know why you want to compare that with every other war that happened in the last hundred years. And Israel's actions, which I strongly disagree with, are nothing to do with this - it's a thread about the illegal invasion of Ukraine

@Torq

The nuking of Japan was immoral. I, myself, have vacillated over this for decades. But, the immorality of it is inescapable. Nothing validates it.

The US targeting civilians in Iraq and Afg not so sure how prevalent that was. Talk to the guys who were there and they complain that US rules of engagement were so strict that often felt they were neutered and their hands were bound. They'd also question whether or not all those numbered as civilians were indeed civilians.

I'm completely with you that Russia has shown more restraint than they have been given credit. They aren't as weak as many on PF purport, they could go completely barbaric if they chose.


There's reported killing of Russian civilians by Ukraine. Seems even orgs that monitor this stuff acknowledge it.

And it's getting hotter and hotter. 🧨🕌

How about millions of saved lives? Give your country a break, you are not some wild eyes, confused teenager, you are matured man, act like one.


And while you are at it, stop kissing Boko's ar*e. Compering you, the woke infected crowd, given the greatest country to people, by God,
, carping, grumbling, moaning, and whining, to foreign crowd attending World Cup. I hear nothing but admiration, amazement prize and respect for our country, but here on PF I see no human faces, but countless spittoons in the third-class establishment.

@Przelotnyptak1

That's all you have? I've given you too much credit over the years.

I am a mature man, ergo my ability to synthesize information and formulate a thought instead of relying on ideologues and Fox News.

Now, the saving of millions of lives is something we've been told for decades, but a closer objective look makes one question whether that is true.

Guys like Hoover, Eisenhower, MacArthur, even Curtis LeMay (just to name a small sample set), all thought it was unnecessary. They recognized Japan was already defeated-towns destroyed, food in short supply, etc.

It'sntrue that Japan rejected the Potsdam agreement, because it did not want unconditional surrender-it wanted to save face and maintain the Emperor's domestic power (something MacArthur understood), but it was looking to negotiate a surrender.

We dropped the bombs not because Japan wouldn't surrender, we dropped them because they wouldn't surrender unconditionally.

Don't trust me, go use your effing brain and read a little wider and deeper on the subject. Read some of the primary sources.

I love this effing country and want to see it thrive for the common good. What we are evolving into is not aligned to the principles that set forth this project.

Give me more John Quincy Adams, Ike, and Reagan (properly understood), and less Johnson, Clinton, W Bush/Cheney, and Obama.

Ok - send a brother a link. Might have been the odd case, but there is no daily targeting of civilians bt Ukraine. The North Nigerians are sending hundreds of drones every night into civilian targets

Not to mention the human safaris

Note to any countries that own refineries.

Don't fúck with countries that own matches.

@cms neuf

Don't be so lazy, you've got the requisite skills to google it. Just a few days ago an article I read made the russian civilian death claim.

Anyhow, the main point is Russia has the capability to exact a helluvalot more damage than it has. There are influential voices within the Kremlin who are pressuring Putin to use less restraint.

It seems like the west still think like this is the cold war while Russia thinks this is something much deeper-like it's an existential crisis.


Ptak, my man, you need to eat more fiber. Your constipation is worrisome-it's affecting your brain. Give yourself an enema and go on a 5-day colonic cleansing. Once those toxins are cleared out, you'll be good as gold.

Ukraine has air defenses, if it didn't Kyiv would have been flattened.

At present moscow is not devoting many resources to Ukraine and is thinking long term (building bases close to its western borders).

While Ukraine and those countries who have guaranteed its independence do not themselves lack capacity for much more damage, up to and including mutually assured destruction.


And r*SSia has thrown weapons of mass destruction on them already; and Kyiv yet prevails.

Didn't happen so I'm not going to Google this bullshit - it's well known that the Ukrainians are not targeting civilians

And that is exactly what some of the hardliners are calling for-military engagement with the West.

Europe has the capacity to ensure victory? Europe has the stomach to exchange a volley of nukes?

Something tells me that all of the tough talk would soon turn to regret.


Pretty much validates the point of Russia restraining itself.

Not restraining itself just... kind of lost interest while chasing new ways to embarrass and impoverish themselves.

Yes, indeed. Russian oil refineries are being destroyed, their capital city is burning, and they've somehow 'kinda lost interest.'

Sometimes, Maf, I despair of you.

@mafketis

Man, you really do not like Russians. I kind of admire how you can maintain such an indefatigable disdain for Russia and Russians. Shows a high level of commitment.

At first I thought Russians were funny with their constant whining about Russophobia. Kinda like the proverbial black woman constantly running to HR.

However, the last couple of years convinced me that there really exist genuine Russophobes on this planet.

@Torq

Yeah, no wonder they're a little reactionary.


Haha...good one.

It is more productive talking to the wall, than highly indoctrinated, woke infested wind bag with the mile long anti-American posts do not equal
wisdom; and rapping yourself in the American flag, in my mind, more desirable, than treachery or subversive apatriotism.

Sounds like someone has run out of logical arguments.

To run out implies one had previously possessed something. Ptak hasn't run out of logical arguments, he's in search of one.

However, Ptak is suffering from paralysis onset by constipation, therefore he is unable to journey further than his commode to find a logical argument, so he only has that which is immediate to his person, hence "woke," and very bad poetry found on the back of his Proud Boys Weekly.

I keep suggesting a colonic but won't do it...fears he might miss something important, like Sean Hannity or Mark Levin visitng, on Fox and Friends.

What ya gonna do?

... in November 2018.

EDIT: @AntV you beat me to it :)

Yours is better. The pithiness and compactness makes it more impactful.

I cannot articulate just how irritating it is that a Baltic Slav and Marauder from the Steppes are more articulate in God's preferred language, American, than I am.

Not as irritating as those Hebrew and Greek upstarts impudently translating the Bible into their irrelevant languages from the original Authorised Version.


Funny. My Dad never says English but always American. "Synek, coś tutaj jest napisane po amerykańsku - weź mi to przetłumacz". ha ha
And he is probably the last person on the planet who doesn't speak a word of English (but is fluent in Russian). A veritable dinosaur, my old man.

And in so doing saved hundreds of thousands of U.S. lives and millions of Japanese lives, by avoiding a military invasion of the Japan home islands.
The Japs were digging in, and preparing everybody from children to old men and women to fight with whatever weapons they could muster, in order to produce as many U.S. casualties as they could.

People often exaggerate the extent of Japanese preparations and use them to justify the decision to drop atomic bombs. Naturally, they were preparing in the case of invasion. However, not all Japanese leaders wanted suicidal resistance, and in August 1945 Japan was already seeking ways to end the war (especially that the Soviet invasion was coming, so the Japanese knew it was over for them). It is exactly like AntV says - the USA wanted unconditional surrender as soon as possible; hence the decision of nuclear holocaust of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

... and don't get me wrong. I know the Japanese did horrible things in Asia in WW2 - they were indeed like Nazis in Europe. The whole argument started merely from me pointing out that accusing Russians of being somehow excessively cruel to civilian population of Ukraine, being brutal beyond compare, and all that, does not withstand historical scrutiny

😂. A wise man.

@Kevlar Pole

Got it. Kind of understandable a country would prep itself for an invasion.

Do you acknowledge the historical record does hold that Japan was indeed negotiating a surrender-which would have also prevented the mass loss of American and Japanese lives?

Again, it is true Japan rejected the Potsdam agreement, but it rejected it because it rejected unconditional surrender.

Do you acknowledge that nearly every American military commander, including Ike, MacArthur, and Curtis LeMay, deemed dropping the nukes as unnecessary?

It's not a competition. Russians are somehow 'better' because they haven't yet murdered enough civilians? All those countries have committed war crimes and Russia, from the start of this 'special military operation', has targeted residential areas, hospitals, school etc.


I'm not too lazy to google and I found only two sources. Both Russian. The Moscow Times and Novaya Gazeta. Both those sources site the Russian Investigative Committee for the reports of 621 civilian deaths. Given that Russia constantly lies and is never culpable, I would take that report with a pinch of salt.

apparently.... I don't get the logic either.

It is really rather simple...


Yes, they are 'better', because they could unleash all hell on the enemy country's civilians (like so many other countries before them did) on a mass scale - they certainly have the means to do it - but they refrain from doing so.

They always have; this is nothing new.


A matter for Europe; and Putler knows what the consequences for r*SSian cities and all military installations should he be foolish enough to carry out a strategic nuclear strike would be.


There seems to be a real crisis there with consumer fuel running out and so much of the leadership decamping to Kazan in the hope that drones can't reach them.


What do you suggest Ukraine do?

Give in to Vladolf Putler and see decades of partisan war and r*SSian genocide?