European News and Poland Thread

That's interesting. I always think that people there sound like they've got a slight cold. What you say about 'dzi' more or less chimes with the Poznaniaks that I know. It's people from Podlasie that have the singsong accent for me.

There's another distinct accent, now sadly rare. It's the 'old' Warsaw accent which you only really hear nowadays from older people in (for obvious reasons) Praga.

When Poznanians speak English they often sound like there using uptalk? That is, every statement sounds like a question? It can get very irritating?

Brits sometimes say that about youngish Americans (though the habit has spread, probably from TV, to 'kewl' young women in the UK). I've noticed something a bit similar among Poznaniaks, however it's the nasal thing that really stands out for me.

When I used to teach English in PL, I also noticed that people from Upper Silesia who spoke English at upper-Int or above often sounded like characters from South Park.

Lwow Polish has a lovely accent, and the Lwow dialect of Ukrainian is easily understandable for Polish-speakers.

My fathers side of the family are from Podlasie and I would agree, especially amongst the women, who speak very quickly too, which accentuates it.

But are these really different accents?
Not as strong as the difference in regional accents in The UK I would say.

Not as strong (though I gather accents used to be as strong if not stronger) though still noticeable in some places. The post-war population movements changed a lot of things.

The Mazowsze accent differs quite a lot from the way people speak in Warsaw for the obvious reason. People used to say I have a slight Mazowsze accent; that probably reflects the people around me that I speak to most.

Amusing story: I had an interesting debate with a professor at a conference about whether or not Polish had rising intonation at the end of a sentence. I was absolutely adamant that it was the case, and he was telling me that I was wrong and that it simply wasn't the case. I gave him plenty of examples, and he repeated them to prove that I was wrong.

Finally, someone else chipped in with "...where did you learn to speak Polish?". When I said "Poznań", the professor burst out laughing and kindly explained that it was a characteristic of someone from Poznań, and that it was quite understandable why I thought it was the case. Sod it though, I like it and I'm not changing it ;)

If you live in Poznań long enough you pick it up whether you want to or not (along with a laconic 'no' instead of 'tak') a friend from the other end of Poland who's lived in Poznań many years was horrified when someone in Warsaw said;:"Oh you're from Poznań aren't you?"

Yeah Poznan people have a slightly different accent. Still the most pronounced imo is gorale. I found it strange that the Nazis viewed them as like polonized Germans. There was even a military formation of gorale but I dont think it was even a full battalion.

It becomes a habit. Poles are often surprised when someone originally from abroad has a Polish regional accent.

Now Górale, that's almost a different language. There's a very good reason that Polish national TV subtitles Goralski speakers if they're in the news....

Really? Not pronouncing rz and sz properly doesn't make it a Mazowsze accent which by the way is called mazurzyc.


Nah, it is quite easy to understand as well as the Silesian way of talking, quite a different matter with Kaszubia.

It all depends on the upbringing.
I used to work with a girl from Podlasie -she spoke standard Polish. Assuming there is standard Polish.
Several people at university came from Upper Silesia -some spoke with a really thick accent. Others sounded like a rest of us. I remember meeting my friend's brother. She spoke standard Polish but he spoke with a heavy Silesian accent.

Plus it all depends on their choice of vocabulary -Polish or Silesian.

In a way. There was a strong push into educating everyone to speak a proper standard Polish ( yes it exists). Generation of my parents were really going strong at adhering to the standard. Not all of curse, next came an assumption that at least educated people should be able to use so called standard Polish with some ease. Nowadays people from all walks of life are using what suits them. It is often not very educated or standard Polish they use everyday, so it is kind of funny when they strive to sound sophisticated and proper while speaking in public. Funny plebe.

Talking about Silesian it is a different kettle of fish, they speak a standard region variation of Polish.

Personally I don't care that much, some differences will exist always between regions. I'm only baffled when a teacher use some plebian expression while talking. Even thought I shouldn't be so hard on her due to her circumstances, those expression reflect her origins. Still a teacher? Call me old fashioned ...

Governments do that kind of thing all the time.... the question is why it was so successful in Poland when such policies usually fail.

My answer is includes:

first, people wanted to speak standard Polish (for a number of social and historical reasons)

second, Polish spelling is easy to decode so if you can master a reading pronunciation you're good in terms of pronunciation, chaotic English spelling makes it far more difficult for those who want to standardize their speech.

Forget about English!

I was doing near letter perfect dictations in beginner Spanish, long before I understood all that I was writingLOL

"Eye laik tu lirn."

Such a nonsensical phrase is nigh impossible in Spanish. Even in Polish, native speakers quickly learn that "ogOrek" (with an acute accent mark above the "o") is correct and "ogurek" isn't:-)

Actually non-native learners often find it easier to remember when to write ó and u than do natives (also applies to ch/h and r/ź and a few others).

Natives approach writing as encoding speech and have to learn rules about which to use when while natives most of the time learn the written form first and then decode it phonemically - encoding will always be a bit more difficult than decoding.

Spanish (esp in the Americas) isn't so super easy to encode for native speakers either. I once saw a sign in New Mexico "ce renta".... what should it have been?

You make a solid linguistic argument, Maf, I gladly confess! I did fairly well with Polish dyktanda up to the Intermediate Level. Thereafter, I would often confuse certain letters. Speaking and reading though were and are not a problem for some reason.

My reference to Spanish was not to its lexic, but rather to the fact that again, it's such a phonetic language.
I used to think German was such a language, until I realized that there are many words beginning with "F" or "V" (except for certain foreign words), both of which are of course pronounced exactly the same:-) The biggest eye glass retailer throughout much of Germany is spelled "FIELMANN", which I once spelled "VIELMANN" upon hearing it for the first time.

much more so thatn most european lanuages, but there is h (by itself it never represents a sound) and of course b and v are not distinguished in any spoken variety of Spanish (and in LAmerica s and c/z are not disitinguished)

interestingly the rules for placing accents are easier for foreigners (back when I was more fluent and had contact with Spanish speakers I was asked a few times by native speakers if a certain word uses an accent or not)

Point well taken!

"b" and "v" are mostly undistinguished by Latin American speakers, by Spaniards far less in my experience.
I was pleasantly surprised by a bilingual Catalan-Spanish speaker I currently have as an Intermediate ESLer.
Her family name is Vasco, and not only does she pronounce the "v-sound" as a recognizable phoneme
to Anglophones, apparently, she can even spell it correctly too, right off the bat.

No variety of Spanish distinguishes the two - find a dialect where they're distnguished and you'll be famous in the field of linguistics... Many Spanish speakers imagine there's a difference but cannot consistently produce it in spontaneous speech

Some types of Catalan do distinguish b and v so Catalan speakers have an advantage there....

Since Nuria IS in fact a native Catalan speaker who grew up in Barcelona of a Spanish father and a Barcelonian mother, perhaps then this is why she can pronounce her family name as a "V" instead of a "B":-)

I predict something with the UN and/or Brussels...she says always "no" to all that when asked but we know her, if the opportunity arises she will grab it.

She loves making policy to much and especially the international platform with her adoring world journos...and she is not that old, I really don't see her sitting back and cooking potatoe-soup, not for long anyhow!

She has lost interest in the little german politics mess for awhile now...you can't interpret her long silences between rare sunday speeches hardly differently. Especially now as Germany is not a calm place to be and could use a strong unifying centerpoint, Merkel and/or Steinmeier are not it!

Well, Steinmeier held recently a really good speech so... .

A president should be a unifyer....not supporting the extremist ANTIFA and exclude about 20% of the population for voting AfD, he should be neutral not partial...otherwise he is part of the problem not part of the solution!

He is a president solely for the left-liberal Wessis...he has that in common with Maas and others. No wonder the East is looking elsewhere for leadership...

Those (and they are overall less than 20% Germany wide) have excluded themselves and evidently don't want to be part of the wider German society, otherwise they would not vote for a party that stands in opposition to it.

It is time to take the gloves off and treat AfD voters realistically. They are not some sheep who vote for a party without knowing what it stands for. The voters in Brandenburg knew that their local party leader is a neo-nazi symphatizer yet voted for them. People who vote for Gauland and Höcke have at the very least lost their moral compass. What kind of political debate can you have with someone who considers our democratic leadership illegitimate, and believes in conspiracy theories? Who might secretly dream off deporting all non "natural"-born "Bio-Germans" out of the country? Remember the guy on this forum who dreamed off nuking Berlin and could not write an argument without insulting the opposite site.

Steinmeier helped encouraging those who fight those people, and is a rallying point for all decent Germans. It is also important to note that even in East Germany, the vast majority did not vote for the AfD.

So, what are real Afd covert plans?

No, he definitely isn't!

Or you define "decent" only if you are a left-green blinking voter...you know in our "Kampf gegen Rechts" times....that is not normal as being conservative/rightist is a totally acceptable political leaning. But "decent" Germans don't make a difference anymore, right? All Nazis to you!

That won't end well...sorry to say that!


There is also nowhere a majority for the Greens or the Linke, they are still everywhere in the coalitions...even as they are treated much more supportive by the media. With Habeck even talked as possible chancellor.

There is no longer a majority for SPD either and still she is in the government...recently the established parties can only stay in the state govs if they go into crazy coalitions with political adversaries, only to keep the AfD out.

For a party who was founded only very recently (in 2013) that is nothing but astounding! They are already much more successful than the Greens, who needed till the 80's to come that far!

Als ich den Kollegen die Grönemeyer-Rede vorspiele, stockt ihnen der Atem. "Das muss doch Satire sein, eine Parodie auf die Nazis".

twitter.com/TichysEinblick/status/1173975654313943041

(Polish) Kiedy odtwarzam przemówienie Grönemeyera moim kolegom, są oszołomieni. "To musi być satyra, parodia nazistów".

(English) When I play Grönemeyer's speech to my colleagues, they are stunned. "That must be satire, a parody of the Nazis"

All of which begs the exacerbating question as to why Merkel has been sooooo out of touch for so long! Might it be she in fact wants to throw the election, that is, give it over to the other side because she's simply tired of politics as usual, feels she's not going to live forever, and honestly doesn't give a hoot about the next generation.

Either scenario is possible.

My guess!

....is as good as mine, probably better!