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Germany. SPD coalition with CDU/CSU leaves party youth out? What it means for Poland?



Rich Mazur
21 Feb 2019  #391

As you see your usage of the world make no sense.

Depends on a definition of civilization.

Two sentences, four errors. Please, never tell another guy that his English is bad.

Weimarer
21 Feb 2019  #392

@Tacitus

Arminius was taken hostage as a child and taken away from his people. He did not betray anyone. Its like saying Natasha Kampusch betrayed Priklopil, when she ran away.

Bratwurst Boy
21 Feb 2019  #393

Personally I think that he was a very gifted politician and general, and that there is little point in moralizing his actions.

Absolutely!

How he unified the higly independent tribes to leave their squabbles with each other behind to fight a much stronger enemy together is nothing short of a miracle! (Even only a shortlived)

We could need someone like him today, heh:)

PS: About the betrayal....look what happened to Vercingetorix! He tried to beat the Romans at their own game with their own means and rules and he lost. Gaul lost and became romanized!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vercingetorix

Arminius didn't and he won!

Tacitus
21 Feb 2019  #394

Arminius was taken hostage as a child and taken away from his people. He did not betray anyone.

His father swore allegiance to Rome, which was standard procedure at the time. The weak submited to the strong, and the strong could expect loyalty for sparing them. Modern morales do not apply in a situation like this.

Weimarer
21 Feb 2019  #395

Thats not "modern morals". Basic morals never change.

The romans were foreign invaders who brought a brutal tyranny. Arminius was taken as a hostage, take away from his own family and people.

He obviously was too old when the romans took him. Apparantly he always knew, who is has to be loyal with and remembered his people, when they needed him.

Taking germanic sons as hostages proved to be the romans big failure. It turned against them and saved Germany from the fate all the others suffered that were destroyed by rome.

The best thing is, how Varus died a horrible and shameful death.

Torq
21 Feb 2019  #396

Because of this German arrogance there isn't, and it won't be, good relations between our nations.

Spike - you seem to ba a smart guy. How can you say such a thing? No other country has helped Poland so much since 1989 as Germany has.

We had their full political support in our attempts to join the EU and NATO, we received substantial amount of money in structural funds, and other economic help. In 2002 they have given us 128 Leopard tanks with full equipment and ammunition; they were 15-year old, but they came from their military reserve, so they weren't used up or neglected - the market value of the equipment back then was over a billion zlotys, and we paid symbolic 1PLN for them. It introduced a whole new quality into our panzer forces. Everyone expected the tanks to be in very bad condition, but they were practically as new. We also got 23 MiG-29 fighters for a "symboliczna złotówka". Our farming in the west of Poland practically depends upon German new/used agricultural equipment. We get 50 billion euro surplus in trade exchange with Germany every year (they could very well buy those trains, gas turbines, engines or furniture elsewhere, but they get it from us - partly for economic reason, but partly as a part of their unwavering politcal/economical support). Just a couple of examples off the top of my head. I don't even want to imagine what would happen if our relations indeed turned bad one day.

Of course, there is the issue of Nord Stream, which is difficult, but apart from that Germany has been our most stable and dependable ally for the last 30 years (and I can't say that about ANY other country in the world). Surely that must count for something!

delphiandomine
21 Feb 2019  #397

Surely that must count for something!

It's all political. The master in Nowogrodzka says that there must be poor relations with Germany, so therefore he proclaims relations to be poor. There's a distinct lack of critical thinking and plenty of propaganda from him.

We had their full political support in our attempts to join the EU and NATO

I'd argue that Poland would never have joined the EU in 2004 if it wasn't for German support, especially in the late 1990's and early 2000's when it looked like Poland wouldn't be part of the 2004 wave. There were some huge questions then, and let's not forget about how Germany pushed and pushed for Poles to be given visa-free access to what became the Schengen zone in 1991 even when there were issues with Poles working illegally in Western Europe.

Torq
21 Feb 2019  #398

The master in Nowogrodzka says that there must be poor relations with Germany

Nowogrodzka has nothing against good relations with Germany. They are not idiots -- they realise how important those relations are. The only centre of political power that sees its vital interest in weakening German-Polish ties (and the EU in general) is Kremlin, and there is an entire army of internet trolls (I'm not saying Spike is one of them) hired to undermine the EU and bilateral relations between Poland and her neighbours, on top of all the official propaganda (RT News, Sputnik etc.).

Poland would never have joined the EU in 2004 if it wasn't for German support

Spot on, Delph. As I said -- our most reliable ally for the last 30 years. Thank you, Germany!

delphiandomine
21 Feb 2019  #399

Nowogrodzka has nothing against good relations with Germany.

Maybe not on a personal level, but on a political level, they've used Germany to further their political aims.

is Kremlin, and there is an entire army of internet trolls

Oh, for sure. They've also got plenty of useful idiots, like Korwin-Mikke and his teenage supporters.

Torq
21 Feb 2019  #400

Maybe not on a personal level, but on a political level, they've used Germany to further their political aims.

They use anti-German sentiments still present in the older generation to score some brownie points in hope that it will earn them extra votes, but in real politics they won't do anything to weaken our ties with Germany. If they do, it will mean that they indeed ARE idiots (but I don't think so).

Bratwurst Boy
21 Feb 2019  #401

I hope so....I really do....

A Germole till death! :)

Torq
21 Feb 2019  #402

A Polger till I die! :)

Bratwurst Boy
21 Feb 2019  #403

....yeah....we still have to work on the naming! :)

Ziemowit
21 Feb 2019  #404

but in real politics they won't do anything to weaken our ties with Germany

It does seem so. The subject of war reparations from Germany comes and goes. For instance, I have not heard anything on that for several months. Last time the Polish media were talking about it, it lasted for a very short period and then the issue suddenly evaporated. One may perhaps expect it returning before the Polish parliamentary election this year (between 12 October and 12 November).

Even the issue of the Polish bison who recklessly swam across the river Oder to the other side one day and was subsequently killed by hungry Germans somewhere around the town of Lebus (this medieval Polish town of Lubusz called "gate to Poland" was effectively lost to Germany in 1250) emerged once again some time ago (shouldn't the cost of the meat be included in future reparations?) beacause some lawyers in Brandenburg declared the killing illegal which was contrary to what was declared earlier on.

Lyzko
21 Feb 2019  #405

True, Ziemowit, but ohhhh' so entertaining, if one is mature enough NOT to take it at face value! Who among us is perfect anyhow?

Spike31
25 Feb 2019  #406

[moved from]

That only proves that Germany and Germans are incapable of holding a dominant role in the European politics. The real test of a character comes in the moments of crisis.

Tacitus
25 Feb 2019  #407

Indeed. And where other countries failed, Germany passed with flying colours. When other countries were more concerned with scoring some easy domestic points with cheap xenophobia, Germany acted to keep the EU together.

Spike31
25 Feb 2019  #408

When the other countries have defended their cultural integrity and safety of their citizens, Germany has carelessly invited over a million of illegals, some of them of unknown origin and without any documents.

And when the damage was done the officials have admitted that it was a big mistake right from the begging.

reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-idUSKBN15D0CO

Bratwurst Boy
25 Feb 2019  #409

Germany should have shot them at the border....then Spike would be happy!

johnny reb
25 Feb 2019  #410

some of them of unknown origin and without any documents.

Start vetting them.
Do DNA tests on these people and send them back to the country they came from if they don't have proper documentation.
It's going to take awhile to clean this mess up that Merkel made.
It can be done though.
A DNA test and a one way air ticket is a lot cheaper then the welfare and crime these "opportunists" are threatening your country with.

Spike31
25 Feb 2019  #411

Germany should have shot them at the border....then Spike would be happy!

I would be happy if Merkel didn't invite them in the first place with an "open borders" policy.

And then if Germany didn't try to send them to other central EU countries under a threat of the EU sanctions.

It was a disaster, but let's look at a bright side: it weakened dominant German political position within the EU, it consolidated the V4, it gave patriotic and nationalist right-wing parties fuel and opportunity to grow, it woke up a Polish society to a dangers of multikulti policy.

It's going to take awhile to clean this mess up that Merkel made.

It going to be very costly and time consuming. And I don't believe that the whole problem will ever be solved in 100%. The government will probably just make few 'spectacular' moves, like some deportations of the most radical element, to fool the society so they could be elected again.

Bratwurst Boy
25 Feb 2019  #412

It was a disaster, but let's look at a bright side:

I knew you would come around...

Dirk diggler
25 Feb 2019  #413

Germany should have shot them at the border....then Spike would be happy!

That's what you do with Invaders...

Rich Mazur
25 Feb 2019  #414

The government will probably just make few 'spectacular' moves, like some deportations of the most radical element

You are waaay behind in tracking libs' madness. Now, even convicted criminals are not deportable.


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