Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

In the UK's case, looking at it, it's near rather than over - basically right on the edge of the 12 mile limit. In other European countries' cases (especially the Baltic States) they do overfly.

telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11426692/RAF-jets-scrambled-more-than-40-times-to-intercept-Russian-bombers.html


In my case 20 years too old for that. The situation in Ukraine has made it a grim reality for a loved one though...

uk.reuters.com/article/2015/03/09/uk-ukraine-crisis-putin-crimea-idUKKBN0M51DC20150309

"Russian President Vladimir Putin has said he ordered officials to start work on taking control of Crimea weeks before a referendum which, the Kremlin has asserted until now, prompted the region's annexation from Ukraine.

Russian state television channel Rossiya-1 aired a brief extract of an interview in which Putin said he had called an emergency meeting in February last year to discuss the overthrow of Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovich hours earlier.

"This was on the night of Feb. 22 through to Feb. 23. We finished around 7 in the morning. And, while saying goodbye, I told all the colleagues: 'We have to start the work on Crimea's return into Russia'."

This account, broadcast on Sunday, appeared to be at odds with previous assertions from Russian officials that the annexation decision was taken only after the referendum on March 16, when Crimeans voted to become part of the Russian Federation."

*****
Is the West going to continue appeasing the lying bastard as they did with Hitler in the Munich Pact? That led ot World War Two. Where will appeasing Putin lead? To the take-over of central Ukraine where people will be "persuaded" (at gunpoint) to vote for autonomy from Kyïv. Or will he first deal with Georgia or Moldova-Transnistria? On Sunday the Kyiv Post reported that Putin is arming Crimea seeking to turn the peninsula into a "giant military base".

i call all Poles who taking part in discussion in this thread to be realistic and not to allow to be manipulated by the official propaganda of the west of Europe and USA. What is Polish is Polish, what is Russian is Russian, what is Ukrainian is Ukrainian. Every open question to be object of negotiations, between Poles, Russians and Ukrainians. No need for opinion of hostile non-Slavs.

George W. Bush joined the 147th Fighter Interceptor Group of the Texas Air National Guard on May 27, 1968, during the Vietnam War. He committed to serve until May 26, 1974, with two years on active duty while training to fly and four years on part-time duty.

What year did you sign up for military duty by free will.


Unfortunately Crow the world does not revolve around the Slavic countries.
This is a concern and effects the whole world.
I am of slav decent that has been deplaced because of war.
I am not trying to manipulate anyone here, I think you are more guilty of propaganda and maipulation then me just by your last post alone.

There is ever reason for opinion by anyone that is effected by what is happening in Ukraine.
Ukraine is begging for weapons from the U.S., Ukraine is begging to join NATO.......you don't think that is of any concern
to the citizens of NATO countries ?
Come down off your Almighty Slav High Horse and recognize that the Slavic countries are not the center of the universe.
They are in dire straights right now and need all the help they can get.
While I see many of your points and agree with them......you have missed the mark on this one BIG TIME.

Putin caught them just like he said he would.
Mar 08, 2015 · MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian authorities said on Sunday they had charged two men over the killing of Kremlin critic Boris Nemtsov.
Others charged with another blowing himself up.
More to follow.

Show me his combat record... :)

World? i didn`t notice that China, Brazil or India (just for example) meddling in inter-Slavic things?

Why would west of Europe care for borders that were drown by communists of Soviet Union? Borders between Slavs? Russians mistaken for late recognition of existence of Ukrainian nation, true. But they then accepted that fact and Ukrainian state was formed. Now, when Ukrainian state wants to exist absolutely independently from Russia, Russians of the region (and Russian state) wants final agreement about borders between Ukrainian and Russian nation. Its so natural and normal.


Nonsense. Negotiations about borders of modern Ukrainian state are natural consequence of the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

As for the world,... world was already affected when sovereignty of states was violated on the example of Yugoslavia and Serbia. Pandora`s box was opened by west of Europe and USA, not by Russia. Even then, reasons for opening the Pandora`s box were not neither realistic, neither honest. Albanians are national minority in Serbia. Minority that by force reduced number of Serbs in the region but still, west of Europe and USA supported them to acquire independence, even despite Serbian sovereignty.

On the other side, we have clear situation in eastern Ukraine.... chronologically, speaking of what is today`s Ukrainian territory > Russian ethos existed in the region, as well as Polish ethos; Ukrainian nation appeared in history (but formation of nation wasn`t concluded); Serbian refuges ( that escaped) from advancing Ottoman Turkish Empire formed their own province in the region (actually- two Serbian provinces); Soviet Union was formed and dissolute; Ukrainian state was formed semi dependent on Russia; Ukrainian state decided not only to be fully independent from Russia but also to end its military neutrality; ethnic Russians in Ukraine decided to secede from Ukraine with their territories; Russian state supported ethnic Russians of the region (not entirely but let`s say).

So, as i said, time is for negotiations between two nations, Ukrainians and Russians. i mean, it would be alright if somebody ask Poles and Serbs about something but, seams that Poles and Serbs were exterminated and assimilated in time.


i am sorry for that fate of yours. Its my fate, too.


but honesty is so simple. Many truths may exist but universal value of honesty is eternal.

You said that ``Ukraine is begging for weapons from the U.S.`` but, you probably wanted to say that new Ukrainian leadership, begging for weapons from the U.S., while, you see, i have impression that ethnic Ukrainians and ethnic Russians of the region just wants to have peace and to rule themselves. See, its their historical right. Of both of them. Let them have peace and let them both choose their way.

Too old and medically unfit (I had to lie about that when joining the army or they wouldn't have let me in).

yea..they are Chechens former soldiers from Kadyrov "north army"..
its intriguing,what was their motives.either they were paid assassins,or Kadyrov went mad,and sent his men after Nemcov.hes kinda crazy dude,in love with Putin.and he use those errr.."controversial" methods of dealing with people he doesn't like.

They could even be the Putinists' hired goons. Not of course that any of Putin's enemies have met a sticky end before, eh Greggs?

i dunno,,maybe..
there are plenty of hard core radicals,pro putinists,or neo patriots ect.in Russia,or just violent gangs..i doubt tho that Putin or any Russian agency is behind this.my bet would be on Kadyrov now.i think he step out the line and did silly thing ,thinking hes helping Putin.


any names?and connection with Putin involvement?or it is like with those bombers flying over Britain?or yanukowicz poisoning people.?

G.W.Bush JOINED on his own, he didn't get drafted to answer your first question.


I don't believe he saw combat as he came in toward the end of the war to answer your second question.
He did served in the military. Have you ? Maybe you are going to JOIN like G.W.B. did ?


Who ? " You lie Harry ! NOooooo"
And what campaign did you serve in Harry ?

Well Greggs, there's a link to Russian bombers flying into UK controlled airspace and a link to The Lancet confirming that Yushchenko was poisoned. Would you like a link about Putin's enemies who've been murdered?

uk controlled? i tho you said "flying over uk" what you mean "uk controlled"? can you link it? i wanna see myself,them bombers flying over britain...seems rubbish to me

Putin has to be puckering on this:

Latvia has confirmed more than 120 armored units, including tanks, have been delivered by the US.
According to the Latvian Ministry of Defense, these include M1A2 Abrams tanks and M2A3 Bradley armored vehicles.

You know that he didn't see combat, Johnny, and you also know the reasons why. I'm surprised that you agree with the actions of George W. Bush and his rich daddy back then.

washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072899.htm
theguardian.com/world/2004/feb/12/uselections2004.usa2
sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=George_W._Bush%27s_military_service

Most kids that came from wealthy families avoided the draft some way or another.
That's no secret. Now tell us the ratio of blacks that got drafted compared to whites.
I had a friend that got braces on his teeth when he didn't need them to avoid the draft.
The U.S. military would not take kids with braces.
There were all kinds of creative ways to avoid the draft if you had the money.
However G.W. joined. He didn't dodge the military. But he didn't volunteer to go to Vietnam and get killed, either."
So back at YOU for the third time with my question that you seem to be avoiding,

Exactly, and one of them became a president who sent tens of thousands of young Americans into an unnecessary war that he (and his vice) started.


From the first source I listed in my last post:

"It was May 27, 1968, at the height of the Vietnam War. Bush was 12 days away from losing his student deferment from the draft at a time when Americans were dying in combat at the rate of 350 a week. The unit Bush wanted to join offered him the chance to fulfill his military commitment at a base in Texas. It was seen as an escape route from Vietnam by many men his age, and usually had a long waiting list."

No, he didn't dodge the military. He and his dad just made sure that he didn't have to fight. Mission accomplished... :)


None of your business, simple as that.

Have you served in the military ?


Oh, so G.W.B. served so YOU, who has NOT served your country, has the FREEDOM to bad mouth someone who has served their country not only as a fighter pilot but also the Commander and Chief of their Country so you can have the freedoms you do as in one of them the freedom to run your mouth.


Sounds like You and your dad made sure that YOU didn't either or for that fact even have to serve.
But it may not be to late because I hear the U.S. may be starting the draft again for the big one coming up.

HOPEFULLY you will get your chance. They will be happy to teach you to shut your mouth.
Kids today, I'm tellin' ya.

So you're saying that a German guy should only say good things about a particular foreign politician because he was once in the Texas National Guard? So remember JohhnyReb only to praise Chairman Mao to the hilt since he had a long military career before he went into politics. Doesn't Fidel Castro wear a uniform too? Make sure you only say nice things.


To serve in a foreign army?

Too late to edit and bring back on topic so here's a separate post.

Re. the call up, it's a genuine fear in the Ukraine - a rumour was going round (a reasonably credible one) that men of military age couldn't leave the country because of the threat of Russia's illegal invasion spreading. At least Poland got rid of it since very few people wanted it (and their army was huge and expensive).

Rather than calling up young men (and if men, why not women) in the Ukraine and sending them to die, an international response is needed - no airport accepting Russian passports, no imports from Russia or exports to them, all Russian assets frozen and very fast action to obviate European dependence on Russian hydrocarbons.

EXACTLY ! They now depend on NATO (the U.S.A.) to protect them at the United States expense.
Time for Europe to pony up for this protection.


My point jon, wait until NATO (U.S.A.) sends their kids to die for them instead....... like always.
What did a few post back call them......."Cowards to fight for their own country."
It is very easy for people who have not served to be so hypocritical of those who have.
They are clueless to the sacrifices that military service involves.
It also teaches manners, morals, integrity and respect that carries on the rest of a service man's/woman's life.
You can just about pick out those who have not served here on this forum can't you.


jon, no need to respond to your post because AGAIN, you are far from an authority on THEOTHER and my conversation.


There are many brave women, men, gays in the United States military.
What was your excuse for nor serving your country jon ?

On paper maybe.


There are two different ways to serve in the military. One is to actively protect and/or fight for your country when it is attacked, and the other one is to fulfill the wet dreams of your politicians for geopolitical dominance and securing resources. Military families in this country are always told that they are fighting for freedom and democracy (or "our way of life" as they like to say), but in reality their sons and daughters are used and thrown away after they have fulfilled their purpose. Look at the veterans and what they have to deal with (VA as an example), and you know that I'm right.


How do you know? I'm not answering private questions on a public forum, that's all. But since you are so open with information: why don't you tell us what your nick was before you got banned from PF and had to sign up under a different name again? :)

Pretty well Russia's attitude to it, both in Ukraine now and in the bloodshed in Afghanistan and Chechenya.


Why would I need an excuse for not joining an army or for that matter not doing any other particular job? We don't have military service and haven't since around 1960 and in any case there were no large wars when I was of the appropriate age. I did however spend 7 years doing public service - the army is far from the only way to serve one's community.


No suggestion that the US intends to draft kids and send them to Ukraine or any reason why a country outside Europe would get involved to that extent.

As long as the republicans are kept in their place (Cheney is fortunately too old to do any more damage) we can hope that America won't get too involved.

guys,if you have time i recomend watch those documentaries "donbass under fire"series..i watched 3 of them,terminal,greetings from gorlovka and on the roads.very good watch..no propaganda or politics,,just real life in donbass..amazingly directed i think by maxim fadayev :

youtube.com/playlist?list=PLY96rNvqGJm9YaY4BMFItZTtpotrvc9bV

One of the people chosen to help Ukraine Reform its tax system is from the British bank HSBC who is to appear before the British public accounts committee to explain why his bank was involved in helping corrupt people avoid paying tax. The HSBC bank was found guilty of laundering money for drug gangs, terrorists and breaking UN sanctions. It's always good to start reforms with a clean broom.

MOSCOW - U.S. military combat vehicles paraded Wednesday through an Estonian city that juts into Russia, a symbolic act that highlighted the stakes for both sides amid the worst tensions between the West and Russia since the Cold War.

The armored personnel carriers and other U.S. Army vehicles that rolled through the streets of Narva, a border city separated by a narrow frontier from Russia, were a dramatic reminder of the new military confrontation in Eastern Europe.

Starting to understand when I say that NATO "is" the United States.
I wish they would disband NATO as it is a horrible expense for the American tax payers.

Worth asking Estonians whether or not they prefer NATO tanks doing exercises or Russian tanks doing whatever Putin wants. The same goes for Poland, Ukraine, Georgia etc...

And the sabers rattle a little bit louder.
US To Send Drones, Humvees To Ukraine, Boost Russia Sanctions
As Moscow May "Deploy Nuclear Weapons In Crimea"

Not really jon. Don't let the conspiracy theory fan get to you. Russia performed maneuvers close to the borders of the Baltic countries last month. Of course, our resident military experts and conspiracy fans forget to mention that.

And the sabers rattle again.
US sending $75 million, Humvees, non-lethal aid to Ukraine
The U.S. will provide an additional $75 million in non-lethal equipment to Ukraine including counter-mortar radar and drones.
I am still waiting for the rest of the NATO nations to pony up.

why would Poles even care for Georgia? Stalin, ideologist of the Katyn massacre was Georgian.