Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

We sometimes have controversial situation on terrain. Its war there now, chaos. Its because rules don`t exist, thanks to pressure of new Ukrainian leadership sponsored by NATO and EU. If people was asked on referendum how they see future Ukraine, some regions would just peaceful secede from Ukraine.

You said


Perhaps you are claiming that is some folk tradition that means the opposite to what it does

Your words are a clear call for ethnic cleansing, you can dress it as something it is not or pretend those words mean something known only to you, to any native speaker of English they have one meaning.

It may bore you to try and explain away your words I happen to find calls for ethnic cleansing deeply offensive especially from some self appointed foreign expert.

Negative. The referendum organized by the separatists was a farce which the result has shown. The turn out was massive however, if you have people armed to their teeth standing at polling stations overlooking the referendum you most likely don't place your tick at the "No" box.

Calls for independence of Donbass have been around since the Orange Revolution but never found much support. I am absolutely in favor of a referendum in Donbass if it was organized properly, monitored equally by Western and Russian agencies and the possibility of both sides presenting their pro's to the public. That did not happen and the referendum took place under the watchful eyes of armed separatists.

From my time living in Donetsk, I am certain that "No" would have received the majority of votes under different circumstances.


You are twisting my words.


- was an explanation to what the saying means. Those are not my words.


Self appointed foreign expert who has spent 3 years living in Donetsk, unlike you who has probably never even set foot into Ukraine and takes everything he knows about Ukraine from the media.

i repeat. We need multi-polar world.

Jolly
How can I be twisting your words when I am quoting you accurately?

And why would you choose to use those words if you dont agree with them?

Crow
I agree, the world needs to be multi polar.

You are quoting my explanation of what the saying means and say that those are "my words".

However, saying that someone can pack their bags and move to Russia if they want to be part of Russia is a "call for ethnic cleansing" only in your imagination.

Repeating "call for ethnic cleansing" over and over again does not make it reality. It remains a produce of your imagination.

You were replying to Crow and you made a call for ethnic cleansing. Either agree with me a foreigner or get out, leave your home.



English is my first language I know what the words mean there is no spin on the meaning.

No, you think you know what these words mean.

When someone says "If these ethnic Russians wish to be part of Russia, they can pack their bags and move to Russia" then it does not mean that they call for ethnic cleansing. It is the same when i say that if some Turkish people in Germany prefer to be part of Turkey, then i am not holding them back from packing their bags and move back to Turkey.

Same as in Ukraine. If someone in Donbass says that they prefer to live in Russia, let them pack their bags and move to Russia. How you can see that as a call for ethnic cleansing is beyond me.

But just as much as you would have been prepared to let the democratically elected president Yanukovych dismantle democracy as much as he wants until Ukraine would have been the next Belarus, you are now again commenting on something you do not know anything about.

I repeat, English is my first language, you have not got a leg to stand on here. You were wrong about the EU project (and other things) all of which places a very large question mark over your competence in the English language.

Those people are not immigrants they were born and bred there, how dare you suggest they should move to please you a self appointed foreign expert on Ukrainian affairs.

So, that means that you are able to read and understand English, yes?

When i said -


- do you understand "they have a saying" ? If English is your first language, surely you will understand that it is not "my" saying. Do you get that or do you need more explanation?


I am more than willing to listen as to what I was wrong about. Point it out to me, have a discussion but please, and i really mean it, please, if your only argument is that "due process was not followed" then don't bother. There is no point.


Once again, not my saying. Ukrainian saying. Not mine........


You keep repeating that. Running out of arguments?

Oh Barney ! Please never ask that question again.


Experts are never wrong Barney.


No, just tired of arguing period as we can explain it to you but we can't understand it for you.


Nor does your "opinion" make it a reality.


So you are now an expert on what others think. Interesting.


So only YOU can have an opinion.


Who ! jolly ? The hell you say.


Germany and France are just riding the coat tails of the U.S. and the yUK.


I agree with you Barney, very laughable.


That's was the coup's purpose from years of planning.


But Barney, he visited there so that qualifies him as an expert, just ask him, no don't.
Barney, haven't you noticed the self appointed rules on this forum, "if you have visted a country all of a sudden that allows you to trump anyone's opinion that has never visited said country." You are now an expert. lol


'Certainly' that 'opinion' is now written in stone and don't dare challenge it. lol


Oh here we go again as the parrot repeats to convince himself that ONLY his opinion carries any weight.


Barney, some people just like to argue, do you see that pattern here by any chance ?
You will think like me, you will agree with me, your opinion is silly, I am the authority, no one else has a say, I am

the expert because I visited there, there was no coup.........I am NEVER wrong, ever.
Boring...........

Johnny, I think I have told you a couple of days ago. Your opinion is very welcome if you can argue your case. If you can not, if you do not know what you are talking about, if you can not back up your claims then maybe it is best not to say anything.

I have more than once pointed out that I am more than happy to engage in a discussion. It is not about your opinion it is about how your argue your case. Something you are not able to understand. Instead, you are going to cry about how everyone is bullying you.

This is getting ridiculous, your words are there for all to see. You chose those words knowing their meaning it doesn't matter if it's a saying or not you chose them for the meaning. If I choose a saying any saying, in English or any other language I am accepting that I agree with the meaning of the words they effectivly become mine.

You said what you did and it was a clear call for ethnic cleansing.

You were wrong when you called me ignorant for using a very common English phrase to describe the EU when challenged you started typing babble and then started abuse and weirdly making stuff up about my diet and sitting habits. It's all on page 113. That is one other example of you tripping up on the use of English.

That is only your assumption Barney. I chose the words for the saying as I have gotten to know it in Ukraine. What you do with it and how interpret it is entirely up to you.


You may have misunderstood that Barney. Your commenting on the Ukraine crisis from "the comfort of your sofa" does in no way refer to whether you sit on a sofa, chair, stool or toilet bowl. It just reflects on that you comment on a situation which you simply can not understand because you do not have to live it. It is easy for you to say that "due process was not followed" because you never had to deal with corruption, police brutality etc in your life. If you would have the slightest idea about life in Ukraine, you would not call it a "coup" and furthermore you would not call for democratic transparency while Ukraine is fighting a war on it's own territory.

You are a backseat driver Barney and you seem to feel comfortable in that role. That's ok for me. Just don't be surprised when someone calls you up on the nonsense that you write.

So you typed words for some reason other than their meaning! Are you really saying that?

You are missing the point of page 113 it was concerned with your misunderstanding of English, you called me ignorant, an arse etc and never explained why you did that. I patiently gave you links that any person familiar with English would know were unnecessary as the phrase is very common in English. Your response was to call me a troll again never explaining why.

Your ignorance was exposed and you chose to throw abuse rather than keep quiet.

So we know there are holes in your English and you like typing and posting words irrespective of their meaning.

You know nothing about me or my experiences so please stop making wrong assumptions.

Barney, the BBC and the Guardian calling the EU a "project", as you have linked to, is not surprising seeing that they are UK media. Funnily enough, on page 113 you have used the BBC for your argument but then went to discredit your own source, the BBC, by questioning it's reliability on page 120 when questioning how and by whom the BBC reports are funded.


You believe that you have exposed something. :)


I know that you are backseat driver, Barney. Otherwise you would not come up with the nonsense you write on here.

"So we know there are holes in your English"
Would those be the kind of holes that allow somebody to declare that Nazis are in charge of Ukrainian government ministries that Nazis are clearly not in charge of? Or the kind of holes that lead somebody to declare that the acting presidential of Ukraine stood in the previous elections and got one percent of the vote?

Clearly your English is letting you down again. I pointed out that BBC monitoring is not a normal part of the BBC. I recall describing the BBC in general as being recognised as impartial. Linking to articles correctly using the phrase EU Project does not make me a troll nor does it make me ignorant as you said. What it does do is expose gaps in your English which you have demonstrated again today.

Those words are clear you chose to use them now you are claiming you don't care for the meaning of the words you chose, that is really bizarre, why post them?

Since you joined this thread you have tried to claim some sort of expert opinion, I have seen this phenomena before, it's very common among the "expat" crowd. They tend to believe the delusion that they know what is best for the country that is lucky enough to have them.

Going down that road now? :)

So, on page 113 you did not post a link to the BBC to strengthen your argument and then went to discredit your own source on page 120? It is my bad English that makes me misunderstand your intentions, yes?

Ok, fine!


It is only your imagination that those words "Suitcase - Station - Moscow" means a call for ethnic cleansing. Nothing more, nothing less.


I have never claimed anything. What I do say is that I do have an advantage as I have lived in Donetsk for three years. That does not mean that I am oblivious to other opinions. In fact, i welcome them as long as they are presented in a manner in which i would expect any man to build his argument. The only thing that you have produced so far is "due process was not followed" and a call for democratic transparency from a government that is currently facing a war on it's own territory.

If you would like to have a proper discussion I would more than happy to have it. But your arguments so far have been nothing but the slogans of someone who does not have a clue what he is arguing about.

And when you are unable to respond anymore you start twisting words, repeat the same thing over and over again and when the other party does not respond anymore (because they can not deal with your ignorance anymore) celebrate a victory of having the last word.

You nailed it Barney only some people are so thick skinned that they refuse to admit it.


Maybe that is your problem, trying to tell people what to do.


Thank Administrator St. Jolly ! lol
Shall I bow too ?



Agian your problem of not understanding that we are here to debate with our opinions, you are here to argue
our opinions.



Who are YOU that we are required to defend our opinions to ?
I don't feel I am required to back up anything to a foreign exchange student that likes to argue his self declared brilliance.
Instead you cry when six people here are telling you the same thing.


Does this includes your immature tactic of posting third party derogatory comments.
Kids these days............

" I pointed out that BBC monitoring is not a normal part of the BBC."
The exact claim was
"Monitoring is funded by (among others) the MOD in Britain and the US state department"

But as has already been pointed out, the reality is that BBC Monitoring is 100% funded from the license fee.

Johnny, if you would be able to debate, with facts that you can back up, i would be more than happy.

You have cried about the fact that everyone is bullying you and that you came here to learn more about Poland. How come, if you want to learn about Poland, most of your posts have nothing to do with Poland? If you would be so interested, why don't you ask specific questions about Poland? Why is it, that almost every single one of your posts lands in the bin or is not related to Poland?

Let's debate Ukraine, shall we? We are still waiting for the video of the U.S special forces operating in Ukraine. When can we expect you to post it?

That is the path we are on,

As a native speaker of English I can tell you that the words you posted are a call for ethnic cleansing. We started discussing page 113 because you denied being wrong in your use of English. I described the EU as a project and you threw abuse then when confronted with evidence that you were wrong you threw more abuse.

Now there are two things happening here it may be a bit confusing, firstly evidence in the use of English which I provided there by discrediting your slur. The second thing is the reliability of the BBC as a source of information. Pointing out that BBC monitoring is not a normal part of the BBC does not undermine the bbc as a whole nor does revealing that they delibertly broadcast fake stories. It really isn't a terribly difficult concept to understand.

You may not care for the meaning of the words you posted, in English the phrase


Is a clear call for ethnic cleansing.

You claim to want a discussion however as can be seen on page 113, when given the opportunity you chose to abuse rather than discuss. You never did explain how providing two links made me a troll or how using a common English phrase made me ignorant.

In your imagination, yes maybe. In Ukraine, those words mean something else.


Barney, when have you tried to discuss the topic of Ukraine? By repeating that "due process was not followed" or was it when you repeatedly said that the Ukrainian government does not want transparency (forgetting that they are currently fighting a war on Ukrainian soil).

Ok, let;s reverse this and start again. Do you consider Lukashenko to be the democratically elected president of Belarus?

I really don't know what the problem is here, the English is very clear. If you meant something else perhaps you should have used different words, words that reflected your intended meaning.

The phrase "due process" was an invitation for you to explain how the presidents removal was legal, so far you have failed to do so you tried but got the wrong constitution. Instead of making a fist of an argument you simply insisted your opinion was the correct opinion.

Any country claiming to be democratic must abide by democratic standards I simply asked why Ukraine was not abiding by democratic standards. I believe that is a reasonable request which should be easily answered.

And again I will ask why aim abuse in my direction for using a common English phrase?

If you wish to discuss Belarus make a thread.

Ok, Barney, i am not going in to a discussion with you over my English skills. You have mistaken a Ukrainian saying, which i have dared to translate into English, as a call for ethnic cleansing. End of discussion.


My question about Belarus is related to Ukraine, it's past president and how far you would have let it go. You know it but I am not surprised you refuse to answer. На все добре, backseat driver :)

Jolly your English is really rather good however you need to learn when to stop digging.
I have not mistaken anything the words you chose to use are a call for ethnic cleansing if you meant something else you should have used different words. Btw what did you mean?

I could ask you a question about anything and claim its related to Ukraine, your question is silly I don't decide these things.

Yanokovich was the internationally recognised democratically elected president of Ukraine

It is silly because you know very well which path I am trying to go down. So you prefer to call my question silly instead of answering it directly.

Once again........ Do you consider Lukashenko to be the democratically elected president of Belarus?

you dont have to wait long until fascist start to expose themselves what they really are.same with jolly as with nathan before .
calling for ethnic cleansing, justifying atrocities,war crimes,calling for removing people from their land ect.

Ah, here we go :)


Never called for anything like that


I guess you are referring to Odessa. Never tried to justify it


Now you start to sound like Crow. You mean crimes committed in a war that was started by pro-Russian separatists on Ukrainian soil?


Again, nobody here did make any such call. That's a produce of your wild imagination.