Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

you are not only nazi but also a bad lair

Your inability to understand is not my problem gregy.

He is refering to your call for ethnic cleansing, now is your chance to explain what you meant to say.

Why do you need me to tell you that the OSCE view the last presidential election in Belarus as less than democratic? They viewed the Ukrainian election as democratic.

what if they dont pack up and leave? gas chambers would be justifiable ,you think ? or ,,maybe bandera old school-axes and knives?
or maybe any other suggestions jolly?

There was no such call. It is your imagination. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you want to continue having a discussion based on your assumptions, have fun doing it with gregy and johnny, They are the masters of discussing things that they make up as they go along.

Jolly
The words in English are clear, you say you meant something else I was wondering if you were going to say what you meant.

Again, what you make out of that saying is entirely up to you. If you want to think that is a call for ethnic cleansing, then i leave you to it :)

Sounds like jolly may be getting a little frustrated with all his wisdom.
Everyone is wrong (AGAIN) but him.
It's all his imagination, nothing more and nothing less.
I wonder if he argue's with the guy in the mirror this way too.

He said.pack suitcase and go away....did he not? How is this ethnic cleansing? Stop twisting words.

They don`t twisting the words.


its not. Its prelude to it.


The words with which many wars started.

Merged: Poles greet and salute GIs as liberators

A message to Putin: Hundreds of Poles mob convoy of U.S. troops driving through eastern Europe

Troops from the 3rd Squadron of the 2nd Cavalry Regiment were passing through Polish town of Białystok
Residents lined the streets to greet the soldiers as they posed for pictures with locals who offered them gifts. The soldiers had been taking part in a NATO exercise to demonstrate their readiness to defend its members. Poland borders both Ukraine and Russia and the conflict between the two countries has caused anxiety there. The words US Army and NATO warm the heart of every Pole. In their 1,000-year history, Poles have never felt this safe and secure against potential outside intruders.

The more usa and nato in poland the better. Nobody wants putin for anything, the cleaners jobs are all taken.

i contemplate on situation this morning.

Alright, the feelings are understandable, especially if we put it in historical context.

But, on the other side, look how Germany doing fine. They were the main tool of the west of Europe to `pacify` Slavs of what is today`s Poland. It is them who cut down the power of Poles in time. Russian come later in dis-balance. Now, Germans are sitting quietly. Economy, to say money, every day life necessities doing its job. Then, in a river of time, there is the constant river of priests. Russians? What could they offer to Poles? Slavdom? But, Poles already have Slavdom? They have their Slavic pride. Better conditions of every day life? Hardly. Religion? Poles already acquired one.

What would be our Slavic future, then? Two ways of two major Slavic civilizations? One around Poland, the other one around Russia?

Two? One? Any? Any if we are lucky to avoid total assimilation and destruction.

Wolves are all around. The test of time.

In connection with my thoughts from this morning (above)

i sow comments of Czech president Zeman, in connection with his confirmation that would he attend to Victory Day celebrations in Moscow


and



Point is... why i sense that is for Poland impossible to have such or similar stance in case with Victory Day celebrations in Moscow. Why is impossible for any Polish politician to be objective when it comes to this? Why Poland must be among first NATO hawks who react so unfriendly on Russia? Why Polish politicians have interest to show such aggressive stance on Russia? Why Polish politics function that way?

i expect more from Poland. Still, its just opinion of my own little personality.

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HW-4a0P8sjs

Some interesting point of view...

obserwatorpolityczny.pl/?p=31181

When politicians do not have logical arguments, they immediately refer to the "people", or this is the so-called argument from the people. What the "majority" thinks, is true. In this case- NATO forces were welcomed, so this expresses the opinions of the "people". And how this "opinion" has been made? By pouring them over with news about the "evil dictator Putin" every morning and evening. Look: Polish politicians today do not speak about logic; they do not have other arguments than "this is the opinion of the majority".

As regards of the "safety" which NATO brings to Poland, this is 100 % "true": every day we watch on the TV about the potential Russian invasion. It really seems that people feel safe and relaxed.

Logic is not popular between politicians of "democratic countries" right now.

What I see in the news last days - a number of VIP declaring that shipment of russian S300 mobile SAM complexes to Iran will decrease the security in the Middle East. The only question arise - how purely defensive ground to air systems with 200 km range may be dangerous to someone who does not plan to attack Iran?

What I see time and again is Russia jumping up and down when Poland wants missile shield. This shield as defense against a proven invader, a proven Nazi collaborator and an anti democratic backward regime. If the Nazi Putin doesn't want to attack why obstruct?

Two Journalists and an (other) opposition Politician murdered today in Kiev.....

Process of germanization would fail in Ukraine.


It is good that Russia complaint on eventual missile shield in Poland. Worry when Russia stop to complaint. When stop to compliant it would mean that Russia finally understand Poland is legitimate target for its nuclear potentials.

I am not aware of the fact that there was ever a plan of "germanization" of Ukraine. If anything, you may have noticed (or most likely not), that the Germans were surprisingly quiet in the whole Ukrainian affair around Euromaidan. The first time Germany really got involved was after Crimea was already annexed by Russia.


And why would that be good? What business does Russia have interfering in decisions made by the Polish parliament that concerns Polish soil?

Care to explain why Russia's complaint was good and what benefits it had to anyone apart from the fact that the Poles think even less of Russia?

The same business that United States had during Carribean Crisis back in October 1962 with something, stationed on Cuban soil by agreement with Cuban government. Something that was able to "neutralize" military bases with strategic missiles on US territory.

S-300 in Iran it is totally different story. They do not pose a direct threat to anyone around, unless they decide to send their planes to attack Iran. But if they do, it will be a suicide mission.

Exactly, that "something" were Offensive intercontinental rockets with warheads attached that Nikita Khruchev tried to bring into Cuba (which is 90 miles off the coast of the U.S.A.) and build military bases there to house them.

BIG difference in what happened in the Caribbean at the "October Crisis" is that Russia tried to set up missles bases there
NOT to protect anything defensively like Poland is doing.


Oh sh*t, a couple of those United States of America stealth bombers that are invisible on radar could take out those S-300 sites before anyone even knew that they were up there.

That would give a clear path for the Isreali bombers to take out all of Irans nuclear facilities.
The rest of NATO and Russia would wonder what just happened.

Stop pretending you are talking about tbe same missles a defensive in poland and nuclear in cuba for purposes of attack. Besides that's all crap they are well into developing that shield by the time they make an announcement it will be 95% ready.

You may think that this was a smart answer, but it seems to me that you have neither thought about my question, nor your answer.

My question was which business Russia has to get involved with decisions Poland makes that concerns it's own territory.

Whether the U.S. got involved with a decision Cuba has made in 1962, has no relevance to my question whatsoever.

You are wrong again jolly.
Simple as it can be put........AGAIN !
The answer is comparing Offensive weapons with Defensive weapons. (ANALOGY to compare)
Why Russia was told to take their offensive toys and go home from Cuba verses Russia telling Poland that they are not allowed to defend themselves with Defensive toys.

Get it now ?
NO, Russia has no right to tell Poland that they can't defend themselves with defensive weapons but it may be a concern to Russia if Poland started housing American I.C.B.M.'s (Offensive) weapons in Poland. Get it now ?

An analogy to compare the circumstances. Why can't you understand that ?
Of course we realize that you just want to argue for the sake of arguement like always weather it be a member or a moderator so there is no doubt in my mind that you will not be satisfied with any answer that is given to you by anyone.

I'll say it again, in your words. The same business that US had to be involved with decisions that Cuba make and that concerned Cuba's own territory.

If neighbour agrees to station weapons, effectively controlled by third party, it is responsible for anything that may happen. Doesn't matter that it is someone else who will push the trigger, and doesn't matter that weapons hosting country is not member of a "nuclear club".


Edge between "offensive" and "defensive" weapons is very thin, if it comes to THAAD-like missiles. If someone decide that it is possible to destroy most of missiles that will be launched in a response to a massive nuclear strike just after start, while it is vulnerable, it can decide to try the nuclear strike itself... Europe will become nuclear wasteland, but who will be able to complain for a century, or so?


No need to station ICBM in Poland (unless you plan to attack targets in Americas. ;)) Equally - soviet ICBMs was never stationed in Cuba.

No edge at all, one is for taking down missles coming into their country (defensive) and the other is an ("offesive") which are

launched for destroying say a city or military installation. No fine line there.


Or parts of Russia.
There is a need to station NATO "defensive" missles in Poland to protect itself from Russia's missles


Almost, but back then we had a president with balls (John F. Kennedy) who told Russia if they proceeded to try and unload their "offensive missles" in Cuba that America would go to war with Russia.

Nikita Khruchev wasn't stupid and turned his ships around with the "offensive" missles on them for back home.
Threat deleted.


As will the country of Russia.
There are no winners in war.

But Russia does have nuclear weapons in the tiny part of Russia that borders Poland, doesn't it. Given that, the Polish government has a duty to act to protect Poland.

Imagine regular tank. There is armour (defensive component) and cannon/machine guns (offensive component). Can you separate them?
And tank is regarded as a single complex that without doubt is offensive weapon. Cannon cannot be delivered to a place of use without armour, armour is mostly useless without cannon, together it is quite powerful battle vehicle.

Similarily - ICBMs located around the world on a US military bases is a "cannon" of a "tank", THAADs in Poland is an "armour" of a "tank", and together it is offensive weapon complex.


THAAD is a kinetic interceptor that operate in upper atmosphere and unable to intercept tactical missiles. So, it will be useless against weapons, that (hypotetically) can be used against Poland by Russia. Do you expect nuclear strike from, say, Argentina? ;)

In another words, such "defensive weapons" is not to protect territory of Poland. At the same time, they will be one of the first targets for tactical nuclear missiles in case of serious conflict.


Interceptors in Eastern Europe give a (very slim) chance that Americas will suffer much less damage compared to Europe. So, someone may start to hope to be a winner. More or less. ;)