Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

I dont believe in conspiracy theories and go with the normal explanation; Angry woman said a silly thing.

You confidently stated that it was an edit job, gave no supporting evidence and are personally incapable of explaining how it was done. Your over confident assertions are based on nothing. If you believe its an edit its for you to prove. I or anyone else cant disprove your conspiracy theory.


Holy Sh1t how much are they paying me?

There are two people who are 100% sure what was said in that conversation. One of them has said nothing (I can find) and the other person says the recording has been edited. I trust her word over that of proven liars at the Kremlin.


As usual you are lying, just look at the links I've given.


I'm entirely sure that a studio engineer who is at least halfway competent could slap it together. You apparently cannot see how to, but I did say "at least halfway competent".


Unlike your claims that the tape is genuine, you haven't heard the tape but you claim it is genuine; all you need to hear is what the Kremlin tell you and you immediately parrot that.


Who to believe: proven liars in the Kremlin or Tymoshenko? Given that you tell the lies the Kremlin tells, no surprise that what you're coming out with.

Its for you to prove your mad conspiracy theory a few tweets is not proof, its dishonest to say they are proof of your mad theory.

Anyway I don't do conspiracy theories

I absolutely agree with you, peterweg. The Ukrainian government still tries to do it without blood and offers amnesty to those terrorists as long as they leave the weapons and the building. I don't know whether it is the right way to go about it, but maybe they have a better perspective.

You're claiming that Tymoshenko said something: prove it.
I'm saying that there's a edited tape out there: the person who was recorded says the same thing.


You're lying yet again, or perhaps you've forgotten about your claims that the British army bombed Dublin etc etc ad nauseam

Didnt take long as pointed out up thread when cornered you resort to crude xenophobic stereo types. If you want to discuss Ireland why not open a thread.


I claim nothing, I accept the tape as genuine and think Tymoshenko was angry and said a silly thing.

You have a conspiracy theory but have provided no proof. Its for you to prove the conspiracy theory.


Its a difficult situation this new regime is in, if they use force Putin may very well act yet their authority is being challenged. They need to win the trust of all the people and that is going to be difficult given the circumstances.

I'm neither discussing Ireland nor using any xenophobic stereotypes at all. I'm pointing out that you are more than happy to tell us all about conspiracy theories when it suits you and thus you are lying when you claim "Anyway I don't do conspiracy theories".


The same tape which you have never heard and have exactly zero ways to show that it is authentic.


You claimed that Tymoshenko called for the murder of Russians but have offered no proof at all. It is for you to prove she said that. The lady herself is very clear that the tape is an edited version of her conversation and we all know that the people who have released it have been caught lying many times in the past, just as you have, for example with your claims about neo-Nazis being in control in the new government.

Barney, you hear a lie by the Russian propaganda machine and ask Harry and others to prove that it is not true. Are you serious?! If you know Russian, here is a video report from two TV stations in Russia about the recent events in Mykolaiv, Ukraine, where the separatists were chased out by the locals. On one channel they show a man saying that he is a German citizen (born originally in Ukraine) who came together with 50 other citizens of western European countries to support the radical nationalists. According to this Russian news channel "HTB" he stood on the side of the "Right sector" (far right organization and party) and "the goal of this man and his group's presence there was to hurt as many protesters as possible to prevent them from participation in the peaceful protests". On another Russian TV channel "Rossiya 1" the same man is presented as a peaceful protester who got attacked by the very "Right sector" activists whom, as you remember, he came to support with other 50 westerners to fight against those same protesters.

youtube.com/watch?v=W_hwHiLiOvY

Nice find Nathan. Here's another video
youtube.com/watch?v=YXG67YJVZuQ

For those who don't speak Russian in her report she says


But to Barney there was nothing wrong with that 'referendum'.

It's tin foil hat time

When promoting a conspiracy theory I would imagine that some supporting evidence is required something more concrete than twitter.
Changing the point (again) doesn't remove the need for Harry to prove his conspiracy theory.

No proof of doctoring has been offered despite very confident assertions that the tape was edited. Tymoshenko admits it is her voice and I have asked what was the context when she made the statement that she wanted to nuke Russians?

Harry made concrete statements but isn't au fait with the software and doesn't have any expert opinions so how can he be so sure of his conspiracy theory? Twitter is not proof despite claims to the contrary.


I said the entire process was a sham, what you took exception to was me correcting your frankly childish mathematical ability. If you were trying to make a point based on figures it would have been good practice to have mastered the ability to count. My correction was helpful advice but unfortunately you couldn't see it.

So you choose to believe her when she says it was her voice but not when she says it was edited. Its well know the Russians are monitoring their phone calls, so the likelyhood she would say something to benefit Russia is slim.

Why would she deny wanting to kill Russians? it would help get her elected and its perfectly legal and fair response to an invasion.

It sounds exactly like her she can't deny it's her voice.

Saying silly things makes her look silly and loose her votes, the normal Ukrainian person doesn't want to kill anyone that's just mad. Advising any candidate to advocate murder as an election pitch is 100% unhinged.

Of course you can, 'sounds exactly like' doesn't mean it is. Besides, its simple to take her voice and build other sentences, her voice is public property.


What planet are you on? Ukraine is at war with Russia, killing Russians is to be expected.

Are you also promoting this conspiracy theory? What evidence do you have that the tape was edited?

Anyway I need to say this again............

Saying silly things makes her look silly and loose her votes, the normal Ukrainian person doesn't want to kill anyone that's just mad. Advising any candidate to advocate murder as an election pitch is 100% unhinged

Hopefully parts of Eastern Ukraine will have referendum for independence or joining Russia.
But some of the extreme right wing Ukrainians might start to kill innocents.

Either way I hope to see Obama whine about it.

Russian TV Caught Red-handed: Same Guy Three Different People (Spy, Bystander, Heroic Surgeon)

"Pity Russian propagandists. They must stage scenes of massive and violent demonstrations in East and South Ukraine. They must patch together actual demonstration footage with images of exploding grenades, intermittent automatic weapon fire, wounded pro-Russian civilians, and menacing Ukrainian extremists, organized, paid for, and directed by sinister outside forces. They must show valiant local civilians opposing the Neo-Nazi and ultra-nationalist juggernaut from Kiev.

The Putin propaganda machine cannot rest. It must provide new footage daily for a viewing public eager for the next Ukrainian outrage, growing angrier with each passing day, and asking: When will our great leader, Vladimir Putin, go in and rescue our poor brethren across the border in Ukraine?"

continue:

forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/04/12/russian-tv-caught-red-handed-same-guy-same-demonstration-but-three-different-people-spy-bystander-heroic-surgeon

I see mostly western bias

Same.

Polish TV provides an excellent cover of the situation, lots of personal, individual eyewitness accounts, due to Ukraine's close proximity and the large number of Ukrainians living in Poland. Seems like your opinion is formed by your personal bias towards Ukrainians... bit like Kaczynski moaning about Germans as if they still were Nazis...

Kaczynski? Nazis? WTF are you talking about?
My observation is about what US media is reporting - entirely western slant.

And what is that slant - could you be kind to expand more on that?

The fact that her phone has been hacked shows very clearly that this is more than a single teenager in his parents' basement.


He believes everything the Kremlin tells him; they are the enemy of his enemy so to him they must be his friend.


There is more evidence that the tape was edited than there is that it was not. Or can you find us even a single person who has heard the tape and is willing to say that it has not been edited?


So you want us to believe that her phone being hacked and tapped was the work of a lone teenager in his parents' basement? Even by your standards that's pathetic.

Do you any evidence at all for your conspiracy theory? No you don't you have faith and faith is what you need when you lack evidence.

Argument for arguments sake is pointless there are no prizes.....


I have been asking for evidence that the recording is doctored you have not provided any.

Perhaps everybody would like to have a listen:
youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oEFCmJ-VGhA

First take a listen in the same way as the cretin's who made it: on speakers. Then take a listen on headphones: each voice has its own channel. A schoolchild with three tape recorders and a two-fader mixer could do better (all they'd need to do is remember to record the final version as a mono recording) but our resident sound engineering expert Barney says that in order to make a fake like that one "must be au fait with editing software"! So, to recap, in Barney world it takes a conspiracy to make what an eight-year old child can make with 50-year old technology, but identifying and hacking telephones of politicians must be the work of a single person.

And just for comparison purposes, here's what a genuine hacked phone call sounds like:
youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jL7cgMiGKL0

I can see it being doctored,and it would serve a purpose,but at the same time,I wouldn't be shocked if she was lashing out in anger as people often do in heated moments.I'm saying that it is not hard for me to believe either way.about Tymoshenko.

I'm not claiming anything you are. You claim that the recording was edited where is your evidence?

For you to make a concrete claim you either have expert opinion or are an expert yourself. Are you claiming to be an expert sound analysist?

Anything else is just pub talk you have no evidence for your conspiracy.

EDIT


As said up thread without evidence you need faith, we have no evidence......

I thought that Tymoshenko had had a good relationship with Putin in the past.

i agree to it.


i concur


me too


i agree with this also


or maybe she underestimate Russians and has overconfidence in her sponsors from NATO and EU


Fortunately, Ukraine isn`t in war with Russia.

What we have on terrain is that NATO and EU pushed both- Ukraine and Russia in very unpleasant situations and now Russia, considering being bigger player, deal with situation as she can and as she suits.

i) The form of the recording.
ii) The statement of the person whose voice is on the tape.

You claim that the tape is genuine: where is your evidence? Oh sorry, you don't have any at all, do you.


As I've stated repeatedly, a child with 50-year old technology could make a fake that's as good as the one you insist to be genuine despite having no evidence at all that it is genuine. However, given that you clearly consider yourself to be a expert at sound engineering, perhaps you'd like to find us an independent sound engineer who says the tape is genuine.


And clearly you put your faith in proven liars.


Not really, they had as good a relationship as suited him and when it suited him.

who knows, they were maybe even lovers