Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

Harry,well I don't think you really can prove it one way or the other,though you make a compelling case,Have any experts examined the tapes?it reminds me of listening to a long distance phone call the way phones use to sound back in the day.

Harry,now I could see an opposing politician doing this to her as well to hurt her chances at another run.Are the Russians that worried about her winning again?

You are making an allegation that the recording was edited it's for you to prove that it was, so far you have not done so. All you have done is speculate on how you think it may have been edited, and that is just pub talk.

What is needed is expert evidence unless you are claiming to be an expert sound Analyst, are you?

It's a conspiracy theory for you to prove.

Barney,I'm just wondering what the motive would be,if in fact it were doctored.Why would the Russians set her up like that,she's not in power.An opposing politician would make sense.

I'd say it's more aimed at damaging her international standing and also using a name well-known internationally to damage the Ukrainian side. I don't think that she'd have much chance of winning and I doubt the Russians are that worried about her winning.


You are making the allegation that the recording is genuine: prove it. You are the one who first made the claim that "Tymoshenko wants to murder them even if they are Ukrainian citizens." so let's see you prove it. Or is this going to be another one of your 'the British army bombed Dublin' series of lies when even the sources you yourself offer do not support you?


You most certainly do need expert evidence: got any? Or do you have precisely the same amount of expert evidence as you have other types of evidence, i.e. none. Oh, yes, that would be what you have.


Are you claiming that it takes a conspiracy to do what a child with 50-year old 'technology' can achieve but that it will be the work of a lone-wolf to track down and hack the phones of politicians? LOL!

Harry,It does make sense,but I don't know how much it would actually hurt her internationally,given what the world perceives that Russia did in Crimea,I think people would look at it more as she just lost her cool.Now if Yatsenyuk or maybe Turchynov.....wouldn't this make more sense though.

She's the best known Ukrainian politician on the world-wide scale by far: that is why she was the target of this. The tape isn't aimed at domestic consumption: it's for the world-wide 'market'


How many people worldwide know those names and faces? And how many know Tymoshenko's name or face?

Harry,I definitely wouldn't rule the possibility out,I will say that it is really suspicious that this recording surfaces.

If they were doctored it would support Putins claim that Russian speakers are being suppressed which is part of the pretext for Russian actions.


Didnt take long did it Harry. If you wish to discuss Ireland start a thread this is the wrong thread, why is nationality foremost in your mind?


You are now claiming that I am making an allegation that nothing happened? That is mad.....Jesus.....an allegation that nothing happened!!
That's nuts.

Harry you have to prove your conspiracy theory so far you have not done so.

You claimed in polishforums.com/off-topic-lounge-47/ukraine-crisis-wa y-see-70150/16/#msg1434106


Prove it.

You claimed in.


Prove it. You claim to be an expert on sound engineering, so prove the tape is authentic.


We've been over this Barney: do you want us to believe that her phone being hacked and tapped was the work of a lone-wolf? No, of course you won't be answering that question.


I do not wish to discuss it; I just mentioned more of your previous lies (and we don't even know what nationality you are).

Barney,If she did really say that stuff,I myself would take it as someone blowing of steam in light of what had just happened.I think that would be a weak assertion,since she didn't have a record of oppressing Russian speaking citizens.I really don't know what to make of it myself.I still wouldn't be shocked either way.

I did not it is dishonest of you to say I did.

You have a conspiracy theory that the recording was doctored its for you to prove it was.

EDIT


That's the most likely possibility and something I posted a while ago, angry woman says silly thing.

Yeah and that's why I had asked earlier..why is it so hard to believe?it obviously hasn't discredited her,or helped Putin's cause any.

i can tell you something. There is something in it what you say. Three options

1. Tape isn`t fake but real, what worldwide exposing her real nature as person out of control and plus deeply-germanized fascist

or

2. Tape is fake and represent Russian propaganda for worldwide purpose

or

3. Tape is fake but wasn`t made by Russians but by NATO/EU who sold her now to the worldwide public, after used her

Crow,huh?why would Nato do that,it hasn't hurt her any.I know that this is what you would love the case to be ;)

In US media, those that want to join the russian federation are dismissed as Putin's peons, and the embattled patriotic Ukrainians have to choice but to lay down their lives for their country.

As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle, but no voice is given to the average denizen of Ukraine, whois scared of war, worries about food and heat, and doesn't really give a fvck what is the mane of the person on top of the ruling party, as long as there are no bombers flying overhead.

its always an option. Poland often was sold in history, so why not Ukraine

We are just little people that tries to understand game of the big powers. So, who knows. Its even made by NATO but, not as act of betrayal of NATO`s interests there. Its maybe plot within the plot. Or, she maybe works for Russia, Iran or for mafia, i don`t know.

i don`t know.

You claimed that in order for me to say that the tape was edited, "Now to make such a statement you must be au fait with editing software, you are not reporting others words but making statements."

Of course you then pointedly ignored the numerous sources I linked to which had repeated the statement about the tape being edited.


No, I choose to believe the words of a well respected politician over those of proven liars in the Kremlin. Given how you love to repeat the lies of the Kremlin here, it's no surprise that yet again you support their lies.

Now, any chance you are going to prove your claims about what the lady said or about the tape being authentic?

Crow, there has to be a motive,they don't do anything without gaining some kind of upper hand,not that I would put it past any government or organization to do things like that,but for a reason Crow,think man! lol :)

Harry, I never claimed to be an expert its a lie to say I did.


Thats not true, you linked to her tweets and newspapers reporting her tweets nothing else, I pointed out that twitter doesnt constitute proof. I still think that Tymoshenko tweets dont amount to a hill of beans.

I dont have to prove anything, you claim the recording was edited its for you to prove your allegation so far you have not offered anything more than pub talk and twitter.

All of which were sources stating that the tape had been edited and thus showing that your claim " you are not reporting others words but making statements." was nothing more than another of your endless stream of lies.


You have claimed that the lady said something: prove it. You have claimed that the tape is authentic: prove it.

Harry,has anyone verified that her conversation was manipulated?

Harry you made the big bold claim that the tape was edited I'm simply asking you to prove your conspiracy theory, tweets are not proof.

You made the allegation prove it.

There is no point asking me to prove something didnt happen thats nuts.


Good luck, I've been asking that................

"Today, Ukraine has little choice but to meet this covert military aggression with military force. Putin has crossed the Rubicon. As Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk noted on April 13: "Over the past few hours we've witnessed the worst-case scenario playing out in Ukraine." All the defenders and apologists of Putin have turned out to be wrong and can now be disregarded."

full:

kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/anders-aslund-putin-needs-victory-343466.html

Here is a much better written article about western bias and toxic coverage of Russia:
thenation.com/article/178344/distorting-russia#

Well, they've annexed one part of the country already, they've got 40,000 troops massed at the border, they invaded another neighbour less than a decade ago, they've probably been the cruelest of all countries towards their neighbours over the past century and Ukraine's appealed for a UN peacekeeping force. A little anti-Russian bias is understandable.

Barney,well if he can't answer that,than this establishes the fact that the burden of proof lies squarely on his shoulders,I would say.

You do realize this is RIA Novosti article as in Putin run media outlet. You want more Putin praise in your neck of the woods, go ahead and turn on RT TV and knock yourself out. This is a bit like complaining about the lack of positive spin on Hitler in the western media back in the 30's. The fact remains that what Putin does to Ukraine is plain wrong, one can get tired of hearing the same news and pine for something else but that is not an excuse for fabricating a different view, just for the sake 'journalistic diversity'. Wrong is wrong.

p3, the burden of proof is not on the people who say the tape is not genuine, the burden of proof is on the people who claim it is genuine, the people who repeat the Kremlin lie that it is a complete recording of her conversation. Barney has provided no proof it is, just as he provided no proof to back his lies about who is in charge of various Ukrainian government ministries. How surprising.

newsweek.com/american-who-dared-make-putins-case-231388

Harry,how do you figure that,because she said it was so,since when does someone's word become ironclad proof?I'm still not sure one way or the other myself.