Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

Here you go, Barney, here's a photo of where the people you chose to believe put her when she wouldn't go along with their lies: a prison hospital bed. But of course you will say that she was lying when she reported being beaten by the scum you support.

Now where is your proof? Does it come from the same vastly reliable source that told you that they'd downed a US drone over Crimea? The same liars who claimed that there were no Russian troops in Crimea? The same criminals who claimed that the 'referendum' was fair and the 'UDI' valid? The same idiots who thought that they could get away with claiming that Neo-Nazis are in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education? Good work, Barney: those are superbly reliable sources.

Harry

I asked for proof so far you have not provided any.

Harry et al; are you taking up arms yourselves, or just egging on others to do it?

Fair enough, Barney, if you want to tell us all that you're the kind of 'man' who thinks that the word of a globally respected former political prisoner is worth nothing while the word of the criminals who locked her up is conclusive proof, you go ahead and do that.


Right now there is no need to take up arms; right now the key is to take firm action against Russia and to speak out against the contemptible lies told by the scum who support the Kremlin, lies like Neo-Nazis are in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education.

Jon357,so when the cops bring a guy into court who has been under audio surveillance this means that the burden of proof is on the cops to prove that the tapes weren't doctored,because he made the claim that the recordings were edited?And just the fact the defendant claims this,without any evidence to back up his claim.....only his word,the judge will order that the police prove that they didn't doctor the audio?Because this is the case with Tymosheko,only her word,which I sure don't doubt could be the truth,but I'm just not sure.....there was a lot of vitriol that she admitted to,and this is why I say that it could also have been in the heat of the moment,considering,how Putin was able to use the ethnic Russians in securing Crimea.

well, as long as the diplomacy is not dead.

I'm doing no such thing its dishonest to say I am, you made an allegation but cant support it. You have no proof for your "theory".

Calling people scum is not very helpful is it? Why would you abuse someone simply because you cant support your own assertion?

In most countries, all video must have time and date stamped into the film in order to be admitted to court. Also, the original tape must be made available for independent examination (strangely this one hasn't been).

And then there's the tiny point that cops who get caught lying to the court get fired, but Kremlin staff who get caught lying about things such as bringing down US drones aren't, meaning that one group's evidence tends to be believed while the other group's should be laughed at.

I'm talking about audio Harry,and the Tymoshenko situation.

And yet again you are lying Barney. The Kremlin says that the tape is genuine. A globally respected former political prisoner says it has been edited. You accept their version of the truth without question and you utterly reject hers.


Again p3, the original tape needs to be made available so it can be independently verified. If it isn't, the court will toss out that 'evidence'.

Harry

You made an allegation and are asking me to disprove it that's mad. Its for you to prove what you posted, everything else is just bluster.

As usual you are lying Barney: you made the original allegation here:


I then pointed out that the tape is, as the lady herself says, edited.
You then alleged that the tape was genuine, saying here that " I accept the tape as genuine".

So to you Tymoshenko, a globally respected former political prisoner who served years for daring to stand up to the scum you openly support, is telling nothing but lies but the scum who have been caught repeatedly lying about invading and occupying her country are telling nothing but the truth. What a strange little man you are.

Harry,the court will not make the police verify the tape on the defendants word,not here in the states anyway.Again Harry has any independent investigation done on Tymoshenko's recording?I'm really curios,because then this would end any debate.

Proof Harry thats all, you have not provided proof for your conspiracy theory a lot of bluster is not proof.


I have been asking that the only evidence provided has been pub talk and twitter........

Why would a defendant want the people who claim something is genuine to verify it? Surely they would want and be entitled to independent verification?


None at all, for very obvious reasons.


Why do you so badly want to discredit and discount the statement of Tymoshenko herself? Other than the obvious reason of course.


Proof Barney, you have provided no proof at all to support your conspiracy theory.
You simply won't tell us why you want us to completely discount as lies the word of a globally respected former political prisoner who served years for daring to stand up to the scum in the Kremlin but we should unquestioningly accept the word of proven liars who come out with laughable rubbish such as Neo-Nazis are in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education.

No proof for your lie that the recording was edited that is not surprising.

Harry,so without an investigation,it can't be verified......for obvious reasons.So it comes down to just her word,but no real proof,just speculation,although it may be correct speculation,it is still speculation at this point.Like I said you may very well be right,and I can see the motive for the Russians to set her up.......But for me it's all speculation without actual verified proof.........................

It seems like the issue is all about who is more reliable or trustworthy. The KGB or Julia Tymoshenko. I know which I prefer.

Jon357 well I personally prefer Tymoshenko as well,but that doesn't mean she couldn't have said things she'd regret in the heat of anger..and if it were true,considering all that happened....I wouldn't think any less of her either people make mistakes.But I really don't know one way or the other.

It just doesn't ring true.

In any case, it was a private phone call recorded by the KGB which immediately casts a lot of doubt on its integrity.

what do you mean it doesn't ring true,because I'm being objective.You don't have to insinuate that i'm lying.

Read it carefully.

The 'recording' doesn't ring true.

touche Jon lol ;)

The way I see it is that the recording's been released by the Russian state. It was a private conversation that took place outside Russia. Both sides are clear which means it was not recorded by amateurs playing around with a scanner. Therefore it is immediately suspect. The Russian state does have a history of falsifying and embellishing things to discredit people.

The only unusual thing is that they seem to expect some people to believe it's kosher.

I stated earlier that that's very suspicious in and of itself.but they listen in on people to get the dirt as well.

The whole thing reminds me of the 'Squidgygate' tapes where a newspaper tried to pretend that an elderly couple with a scanner had listened in to and recorded a conversation between Princess Diana and a gentleman friend old analogue (pre-SIM card) cellphones. People actually believed it until it was pointed out that both sides of the conversation (rather than just one) were crystal clear, and although she was on a motorway at the time the whole conversation was recorded, not just the bit from the relevant cell that covered where she was.

The whole recording is suspect.

I understand completely what you're saying,but I'm not an expert.and it's not hard for me to imagine either scenario.

She admits the majority of the recording is genuine the disputed part is when she calls for the murder of 8 million Ukrainian citizens. The part where she advocates the murder of ordinary Russians is genuine the nuking part (ie the murder of 8 million Ukrainians) is disputed. She confirms that the vast majority of the recording is accurate so it does ring true. All pub talk of different channels and so on is nonsense Tymoshenko confirmed the majority of the recording as genuine.

The speculation over the alleged splicing leaves a question hanging, she said the words calling for the nuking of Russian Ukrainians at some point I would like to know the context when she uttered those words. If they were not said in anger it puts a very sinister mark against this woman.

I can understand an angry outburst but the conspiracy is that she didn't say the words then, it's claimed they were spliced in later. Where is the proof this happened the majority of the recording is genuine as agreed by all but no proof has been offered for the alleged splicing and no explanation offered as to why or where she said the disputed words.

Expert opinion is needed until some is provided there is no proof of editing, the allegation remains untrue.

The most likely scenario is that she said the silly thing in anger which leaves a question mark over her judgment.

The fact that the phone call was bugged at all casts immediate doubt.


Ukraine doesn't have nuclear weapons. Russia does.

And 40,000 troops massed at the Ukrainian border.

Of course calls are regularly recorded both sides have been doing it and releasing them onto the net. She confirms the majority of the recording is genuine some proof that editing took place is needed so far there has been no proof offered.

When and why did she say the disputed words? Is an other question that will never be answered.

Yes Russia does have lots of troops ready to invade that has been widely reported.