Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

Yes I accept the tape as genuine I have said that several times.

You challenged my evidence by making a concrete claim ie saying the recording is edited the onus is on you to prove your assertion. That's how things work, you have been nailed telling a lie and are now squirming to get out of it.

You can listen to the recording and make your own mind up whether you believe it or not is not important, once you make a concrete statement you need to be able to support it.

You said the tape was edited prove it was or it remains a lie.


For verification purposes yes it is worthless because she is involved in the dispute.

Harry none of this is rocket science its very basic stuff.

You claimed that the recording was edited are you now also claiming it's not her voice? Good god man this conspiracy gets more intricate by the day, I cant wait until you weave 9/11 JFK and the moon landings into the mix.

So far you have offered tweets and some ridiculous speculation that contradicts her, you cooked up a conspiracy that involved two channels and crystal clear sound and other nonsense. She says that the vast majority is genuine only a tiny bit is in dispute. I'm not sure where you are going with this conspiracy you seem to be saying its not her voice now is that correct?

So prove it is genuine.


Stop lying: I repeated Tymoshenko's statement that the tape has been edited. I love the way that your evidence that the tape is genuine is the tape itself.


Either people can believe the word of the globally respected former political prisoner I am choosing to believe or they can believe the word of the murderous scum you support. I'm sure they'll make the right choice.


And the word of the Kremlin? That is equally worthless but you choose to support their version unquestioningly.


That tape has crystal clear sound? ROFL! That is the most pathetic lie you have ever told here! :D :D :D


No, that's just you lying yet again.

Now, perhaps you can tell us why you choose to support the side which murders British citizens in Britain?

I don't have to, you and every other person who cares (fewer by the day I suspect) can make your own minds up. I accept the recording as genuine.

Proof is required Harry you said it was edited, it doesnt matter if you are now claiming that you were repeating her words or not you said it was edited. You told a lie.

You said the recording was edited prove it or it remains a lie.

Barney and Harry, you're smart guys and I'm sure you'll both agree that life has way more to offer than this d/ck measuring contest, you guys got yourself into. Life's too short to worry about bs.

But you can give no proof that it is other than the word of a bunch of murderous scum who have extensive form for fitting up Tymoshenko.


Her word is the proof it was edited; where is your proof it is authentic? You clearly lie about the tape, claiming that it had crystal clear sound.


You said the recording was authentic: prove it. And we'll be wanting more than just the word of the murderous scum you choose to side with. You might think that the word of people who murder British citizens in Britain is to be accepted without question or hesitation, but the rest of us think otherwise.

For the exceptionally slow......
I don't have to prove anything each individual can make their own mind up, choose to believe the recording or not. That is very simple and not too complicated, if you choose to dismiss the recording that's fine not a problem.

If you choose to dismiss the recording and do so by making a concrete statement you have to prove that statement.

What is difficult to understand?

Harry you said the tape was edited I would like you to prove it was, if you can't it remains untrue. So far you have offered no proof your statement is a lie.

Indeed: they can choose to believe or disbelieve the word of scum who fitted Tymoshenko up so they could lock her up for years and who are perfectly happy to murder British citizens in Britain; sadly it's no surprise you choose to side with such persons.


If you choose to dismiss Tymoshenko's statement and do so by making a concrete statement, you have to prove that statement. But you can't do that, you have nothing to offer other than the word of the murderous scum you support.


Barney you said the tape was authentic and that Tymoshenko said she wanted to murder 8 million Ukranians [sic]: I would like you to prove those charges; if you can't, they remain the yet more of lies of the murderous scum you support.

You have no proof for your statement you told a lie, I don't care about your conspiracy theory believe what you want, but you have no proof for any of it, keep it with the rest of your fantasies.

Now that that is settled any chance of getting back to the thread?

you guys are funny as hell, LOL

I don't remember making any statement saying that I did tell a lie. However, you mean that I have no proof for my statement and thus it must be a lie, I do have proof: I have the word of a globally respected former political prisoner.

What proof do you have for your statement that the tape is authentic? None at all, other than the word of the murderous scum you support.


OK then, perhaps you'd like to tell us why you support the side which is perfectly happy to murder British citizens in Britain?

Harry,why does him asking for proof, mean he's basically...... Stalin?

Why is he allowed to insist that without proof we must completely discount the word of a globally respected former political prisoner who spent years in prison for opposing an oppressive regime but that we must accept without question the word of murderous scum? And let's not forget that that's what the bunch at the Kremlin are: murderous scum who have murdered people in Russia, murdered people in Ukraine, murdered people in Britain, etc etc.

Harry,well,if he doesn't believe it,that's his right.And everyone is capable of lying.There's a lot of people that are considered "respectable and credible" who'll lie,and especially for politically motivated reasons.I can understand why someone might think she's lying,look at how much of what she admitted to saying,but without real proof.I can't say that beyond a reasonable doubt,that I am 100% certain that she didn't let the anger get the best of her,and that is why I'm still on the fence.

The stamina of both Harry and Barney about trying to bring some tape issue to close is formidable. Maybe it will help to hazard a guess that everybody else stopped reading their arguments long time ago?

Its not so much a question of stamina, what is required is the ability to suppress your boredom threshold. Its important to realise that a question will never be answered; all you ever get is evasion assumption and distortion.

It's vital to remember that the last thing of concern is the topic which is a moveable feast where statements will be made and never supported to be replaced by other statements that will never be supported and round and round it goes. The latest nonsense is "the tape was edited" replaced by Tymoshenko is 100% honest neither claim will ever be supported.

This came about because the demonisation of Russians is acceptable for those who have chosen a side in this very complex situation. That is the problem, trenches have been dug any attempt to point out or discuss issues, any issues, have been, as usual shouted down.

Does anybody remember how we were once being told repeatedly and loudly that the new Ukrainian government was a bunch of fascists and Neo-Nazis are in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education? Well it seems that the truth is the exact opposite: the people opposing the new government are the neo-Nazis, as is shown by this news item:


ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4510688,00.html

I can't wait to see our resident supporters of the murderous scum (such as Barney and gregy) trying to excuse this.

That letter is so crazy, I have a hard time believing that any public official had anything to do with it. If anything, it discredits Russians, so it's likely it was produced by the zealots on the other side

Denis Pushilin is not a public official: he's a criminal who has appointed himself as leader of an criminal organisation.


Clearly you failed to see where and by whom the leaflet was distributed.

Use your head, Harry.

"The flyers were official-looking documents that carried what was presented as Pushilin's signature, but the news site tvrain.ru on Wednesday quoted Pushilin as denying any connection to the flyers, calling them a provocation.

On Tuesday, the news website novosti.dn.ua reported that the flyers were handed out that day by three unidentified men in balaclava masks carrying a flag of the Russian Federation. According to the report, the men distributed the flyers next to a local synagogue. The website quoted unnamed sources from the local Jewish community as saying that the flyers were an attempt to provoke a conflict and blame the attack on the separatists."

jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Flyers-call-for-Jew s-to-register-with-pro-Russians-in-Ukrainian-city-348695

Perhaps you'd like to use your head and offer us more evidence than just the word of a criminal who is the leader of a criminal organisation?

here we go again, LOL... Fortunately, I have no intention of playing this game with you, Harry.

Perhaps you'd like us to have a look at some of the other people in the 'government of the Donetsk Republic?


Edited as over 100 word copy limit

aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/04/east-ukraine-crisis-fascist-ma-2014416145823826439.html

Feel free to defend those neo-Nazis too.

which ones are neo-Nazis, again?

Here's another source about them:


en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/east-ukraine-crisis-fascist-matrix-095101711.html
Note to mods: that's 91 words

Oh, and Pushilin admits it was his men who put the leaflets out:


usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/04/17/jews-ordered-to-register-in-east-ukraine/7816951

oh, ok... and Putin is Hitler, right?
In your searches for validation in the "interwebs", you have completely let go of your common sense, Harry.
There are neo-nazis and anti-semites on both sides. As well as families and friends divided by some imaginary lines.
For your own sanity, and maybe even safety of others, you should spend more time looking for more moderate views and possibilities of diplomatic solutions. The moment you see words such as "scum" being used, you're not in the right place.

Really? Perhaps you'd like to identify for us the Neo-Nazis who are in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education in Ukraine? I've just pointed out the unsavory truth about a number of the 'pro-Russian' leaders.


Perhaps you'd like to post your address and ask if anybody can arrange for some strangers to kick down your door and tell you that your living room and kitchen now belong to them? Then you can find a diplomatic solution with them.

or, lets just go with hysteria.

Given that you don't want to discuss the unpleasant truth about the people you choose to side with, it's no surprise you'd want to go with that.

Shall I put up some more quotes from articles about the links 'pro-Russians' have with neo-Nazis across Europe or would somebody click report on those too?

Nooo, really? You'd be willing to do that? You must have some special google app that's not available to the rest of us...

Isnt it amazing that Harry is supporting neonazis from the Ukrainian west?
Now he lives in some delusions that the other side is neonazis.