Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

Ha! Even Putin has now had to admit that he was lying to the world when he claimed that there were no Russian troops in Crimea before Russia annexed it!


The remaining two words of the 102-word article can be found here: thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/04/17/putin-admits-crimea-had-soldiers.html

Do we all remember how the lie went before?


theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/04/putin-ukraine-olive-branches-russian-tanks


Good to see that you have nothing to add to the debate other than lies, as usual. But then what could you add when the facts are so over-whelmingly against you?

Lies? Thats what you excel in.

I guess the US is considering seizing 40 billion of Putin's personal cash from Swiss bank accounts.I don't know how wise of a move that would be.....if this isn't all talk.

I don't want to know how that cash became his 'personal cash' ;-)

Yeah I hear that,but I think it would be a foolish move to seize it.i don't think that there would be no response on his part.

I don't know. I don't like him enough to worry about him losing 'his personal cash', especially knowing, he stole it from his people. As we both know, he's not exactly a businessman. There will be no war, if this is what you mean (consequences). He's gonna steal more money from the Russians, that's all.

You really think that he would just take that lying down?I mean he just seized Crimea without a thought about it.

absolutely. Invading Ukraine is not the same as invading or attacking the US ;-)

I'm not saying that he would attack the US,but he could do other things.Like continue rolling through.I think that that's all talk anyway.

he could try but I'm not sure, how long they would look at it without becoming 'active". As always, Russia can't afford it. They have 'the guns' but their economy is way too weak to support it. One reason why the Soviet Union fell apart.

He has enough to handle that corner,and their economy is the eighth largest in the world,so they are no where near as bad off as they were before.Which is why Putin has endeared himself to so many in Russia.

and yet, too weak to go to war with us.

But not that corner,otherwise he wouldn't have moved in Georgia and Ukraine,unopposed.

The thing is, if he'll do too much, they will have to move and then, he'll be dealing with NATO, not just us. Too much of a risk for him.

No, it won't happen.

You take his money,he won't just roll over.i wouldn't underestimate him.as he as already shown,he shouldn't be taken lightly.I'm not saying he's going to force war with the US,and unless he tries to he takes on a nation that is part of NATO.I'm not so sure the US will stick it's nck out to stop him,as he already has shown.

kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/police-body-of-pro-ukrainian-slovyansk-city-councilman-found-dead-in-river-344668.html

Body of Pro-Ukrainian Horlivka City Councilman found dead in river.

"The Interior Ministry identified Batkivshchyna party Horlivka City Councilman Volodymyr Rybak as one of the two dead bodies found on April 19 in a local river of Slovyansk District in Donetsk Oblast.

Both victims, according to Serhiy Redko, first deputy of the Interior Ministry's criminal investigation department, had the same cause of death: "combined injuries due to torture and death by drowning while unconscious."

Rybak and an unidentified body were found on April 19 near the town of Raihorodok in the Torets River, a tributary of Siversky Donets River in Slovyansk District."

Funny, its like the cold war hasn't ended yet.

And is there any real cash?

It is much simpler to "freeze" some random accounts "by suspiction" and start loooong process of "investigation".

One of problem of Ukraine is common problem of entire Slavic civilization. We Slavs shouldn`t deflect from our old per-Christian religion. Foreigners destroyed balance within Slavic culture and tradition

Agreed

You obviously consider this a good and trusted source of news...


Let's see what the daily beast has to say about this paragon of virtue......
Yulia Tymoshenko has a record allegedly as shady as any politician's in Ukraine, and that's saying something. But, still, she brings her people hope.


So a reputable source recommended by Harry alleges that this woman is probably corrupt and definitely associates with corrupt people all we have is her word that she is not corrupt yet her companies paid millions to corrupt people. There seems to be a bit of a pattern developing with this woman but if her word is not good enough we have Harry who knows the tape was edited but can't provide evidence to support that outlandish claim.

Really Barney? So could you perhaps give us some of the detail about her attempts to murder her opposition? I mean, you're claiming that she's as shady as any politician in Urkaine, so let's hear you tell us about her trying to murder people.

And before you try to claim that politicians in Ukraine don't try to murder each other, do you remember this?

Yep, that's the face of the man who dared to run against the man who you still claim to be the legitimate president of Ukraine. But no doubt you can find it within yourself to support the people who poisoned him, after all, the British government did support him, so we all know which side you have to be on.

I quoted a news source you are happy with and comfortable presenting as evidence for something you agree with something you accept, are you questioning it's integrity? Is there something you don't like about its standard of journalism? You are happy to accept its journalism when it suits you.

Now would you care to provide some proof for your extravagant conspiracy theory? You know the recording was edited because you said so or are you lying?


Well Harry, I'm all ears or rather all eyes no proof at all.

So was I: I was much looking forward to you trying to defend your accusation that Tymoshenko has tried to murder her political opponents.
I wonder why you refuse to address the allegations that Tymoshenko actually did murder her political opponents. Could it be because even you know that those lies from your friends in the Kremlin are utterly laughable? Could it be that you realise how much of a laughing stock you'll make yourself if you claim that those Kremlin lies were true? Are there some lies that not even you are stupid enough to tell?

But if you won't support the Kremlin lies that Tymoshenko murdered her political opponents, why do you support other lies about her? Do you really want to claim that Amnesty International are a bunch of liars?


amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/jailed-former-ukraine-prime-minister-must-be-released-2011-10-11

But, and this is a big 'but', let's say for the sake of argument that every allegation ever laid against Tymoshenko is true, all of it, every last Kremlin fantasy which you share: none of that would stop her from being a globally respected former political prisoner who spent years locked up for daring to oppose the murderous scum which you support.

Nelson Mandela was globally respected, quite rightly, as a great man, but he was also a mass murderer. So why do you claim that Tymoshenko cannot be a globally respected former political prisoner who spent years locked up for daring to oppose the murderous scum which you support just because your heroes in the Kremlin have made accusations against her?


Would that be the same conspiracy which tracked, hacked and recorded Tymoshenko's telephone calls? Oh, sorry, I forgot that to you that was done by a single person working completely alone, wasn't it?


I know it was edited because a globally respected former political prisoner who spent years locked up for daring to oppose the murderous scum which you support says it was edited.

Now, how about you prove your claim that the tape is authentic? You know the recording is authentic because you said so or are you lying yet again?

Harry
Are you dismissing the source of the article reporting the payments she made to corrupt people and never explained as unreliable?

You are happy to use that news source for stories you approve but not for stories you disapprove, that is rank hypocrisy.

As stated you made a claim I would like you to prove it otherwise it remains a lie. You were lying when you said the recording was edited now is your opportunity to provide evidence that it was edited. While you are providing evidence for your conspiracy perhaps you could provide a quote where I mention who recorded the conversation until you do so it will remain another of your lies.

Oh dear Barney, you're just lying again: the article you give us does not report any payments she made to corrupt people, the article simply repeats some of the allegations made against her. And the article makes it clear that those are allegations. However, the article you give us does state very clearly why Tymoshenko was locked up " In the 2010 presidential elections she ran against Yanukovych, she lost, and in 2011, he saw to it she was jailed." The source you give us only reports the allegations of others, but it very clearly states why Tymoshenko spent years in prison.


Fine, you arrange for the hand-over the original tapes and I'll arrange for analysis of them.


You were lying when you said the recording was authentic, now is your opportunity to provide evidence that it was authentic.


I see one of the problems you have: you lie so much you don't even know what a lie is. Here's a thing to remember: a question cannot be a lie. I asked a question; yet again you have failed to answer it. Perhaps you'll answer the question if I ask it one more time: was the tracking, hacking and recording of Tymoshenko's telephone calls done by a single person working completely alone or by more than one person? Pretty damn simple question really Barney, but then it's also pretty damn simple to see why you refuse to answer it.

Again are you questioning the veracity of your news source? I'll be waiting a long time for an answer as you prefer the hypocrisy rather than answering a straight question.


Good you admit you were lying when you insisted the recording was edited, you have no evidence to support your lie. I simply put the recording out there anyone can make up their own mind about it, you however made very firm statements that it was edited I asked for proof and you admit you have none, you lied.

Now any chance you could answer any of the other questions?

I am not questioning the veracity of that source: I'm specifically pointing out that you are lying about what the article says. The article is not "reporting the payments she made to corrupt people and never explained". The article reports allegations other people made against her. You are lying.

However, the article does state very clearly why Tymoshenko was locked up " In the 2010 presidential elections she ran against Yanukovych, she lost, and in 2011, he saw to it she was jailed." So even your own article shows that she was a political prisoner.


I have admitted no such thing and you are lying when assert that I have. Can you do anything other than tell lies?


And again you are lying. You actually said: "I accept the tape as genuine" "the Tymoshenko tape was not doctored"
And it was me who put the recording out there for people to make up their own minds:


I have answered above the only other question you asked in your post. So how about you answer the one you have been refusing to answer for weeks:

was the tracking, hacking and recording of Tymoshenko's telephone calls done by a single person working completely alone or by more than one person?

You are not questioning the veracity of the source, so there is doubt about the integrity of Tymoshenko. She has paid corrupt people millions yet you paint her as a paragon of virtue. You accept the word of someone who had corrupt politicians on her payroll, nice standard you are setting.

Now any evidence to support your claim the recording was doctored as you said?

The article which you are lying about reports that there have been accusations made against Tymoshenko. It also specifically states why she went to prison: not because of any crimes she supposedly committed, but because Yanukovych "saw to it she was jailed".


I look forward to seeing you prove that. And please do remember that your heroes in the Kremlin saying something does not make it true. Amnesty International say that she was a political prisoner but Barney knows better than them!


I look forward to seeing you prove that.


a) I do not; as usual you are lying.
b) You unquestioningly accept the word of a man who has admitted that he lied about ordering his troops to invade Ukraine, nice standard you are setting.


Yes, the word of a globally respected former political prisoner who spent years locked up for daring to oppose the lying murderous scum you support, which is a lot more evidence than you have to support your repeated claims that the tape is authentic.

And now that I have repeatedly answered your questions, how about you answer one you have been refusing to answer for weeks:
was the tracking, hacking and recording of Tymoshenko's telephone calls done by a single person working completely alone or by more than one person?