Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

Jon your trolling now, being Harry's sidekick does not count as contributing to the discussion. And I agree that your a Russophobe

Don't be silly. The main thing here is to establish the reason for that great long list of lies that appeared in this thread. Transparency in any political dialogue is essential.

And how did that piece of gossip advance the thread? Well it wasn't as strange as Harry's posting about animal sex that's for sure or your lack of an opinion but still strange all the same.

So what about that long list of lies then? You know, the ones that discredited you.

Barney, for the second time of asking, instead of giving your opinions about other posters, could you perhaps address the long and growing list of lies you have been caught telling about the situation in Ukraine?

Indeed it is, that's why I asked you about your hypocrisy in using whataboutery when you insisted that others cannot use historical events. It's also important for transparency as you say to not have multiple usernames or post as a guest in an attempt to hide your identity. To do either of those things would be hypocritical especially so I f you do both and yet demand transparency, it's like acting as a proxy for others demanding answers from others but never giving answers.

As said if you want your questions answered perhaps you could provide some yourself, and as you are willing to be someone else's proxy could you explain the various conspiracy theories presented perhaps this time without mentioning the fantasies.

Still trying to change the subject (and quoting from a username from years ago, doubtless for your own weird reasons).

And still not man enough to admit to your lies.

Barney, for the third time of asking, instead of giving your opinions about other posters, could you perhaps address the long and growing list of lies you have been caught telling about the situation in Ukraine?

You had the gall to talk about transparency when you have at least three usernames you also posted as a guest to hide your identity. It takes some neck to pull that stunt and play all innocent, perhaps answering a question rather than gossiping may have advanced the thread. Offering an opinion, any opinion, may also have advanced the thread as would explaining your hypocritical stance on mentioning historical events. Instead you chose to wh*re yourself and become a proxy but that is not surprising.

This beginning to remind me of when Paxman had to ask the same question twelve times.

Barney, for the fourth time of asking, instead of giving your opinions about other posters, could you perhaps address the long and growing list of lies you have been caught telling about the situation in Ukraine?

I propose another rule - a limit to number of replies saying the same thing over and over again! That's for you Harry and Barney, if you two stopped after making your points eons ago, we might be able to judge who's side we might side with, but at this point, nobody gives a sht and I'm sure we all wish you two would move the fck on!

Like two kids that cannot let the other one have the last word.
"You lie!
No, You lie!
Prove it!
No, you prove it! "
Ridiculous.
And Jon? Really? You too?

lol They've been doing this since they joined this forum. I'm surprised that you are surprised :-)

They should get s separate thread, just to see who can outlast the other, and stop annoying the rest of us.

I'd bet my money on Harry, he can run with his nonsense for ages.

I have a right to be richer than Bill Gates. Is this change something in my bank statement?

What we see is deeply divided population that was unable to elect any real leaders in 20+ years and all they able to "acheive" in 20 yrs is economic growth comparable to inflation.

Can they afford to be independent?

Now we see how US/EU tried to control de-stabilisation of Ukraine and "privatise" all geo-political benefits, sending all the bills to Russia.


Hm... Looks like US bring prosperity to every country it had contact - Iraq, Lybia, Yugoslavia, Syria just to note a few......


No chances. I do not see any leader that will be equally acceptable to banderite West and russian East. Can you, please, ask Jesus to come in person, maybe their leadership will be acceptable? ;)


What else can be expected from someone so ukrainian in soul? ;)

display of some people stupidity in this thread is grotesque.
one is assessing current Ukraine situation base on number of poles killed by the Russians vs killed by the Ukrainians.lol
he decided to side with Ukrainians cus they killed less poles.he doesnt even understand concept of ethnicity and nationality,blaming todays Russians for crimes of soviet criminals.if he did understand idiot would know that holodomor was orchestrated by ethnic Ukrainian Lazar Kaganovitz,Stalin and Beria were Georgians,Lenin was Tatar,jezhow-jew,zinoviev jew,jagoda -jew,trocki-jew.dierzynski-pole...and on and on

where are those evil ethnic Russians?
what is sad that idiots support and side with evil fascist banderist ideology against ethnic russian people that got nothing to do with crimes comited 60 years ago by the soviets

but the best part is:if you go ethnic line then today Russians could blame Ukrainians for holodomor. since it was Ukrainian responsible for it,and millions ethnic Russian people were affected and died as well


lol..not so small,and the difference is -banderist are in power,while Stalin is not

here..learn something,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group

I agree, that was long ago, once Stalin died Poland began to feel more relief from Russia's tight squeeze. Stalin appointed mostly those who hated Polish the most and ordered them to torment Polish people but further Russian governments were more flexible and slowly the biggest haters of Poland began fade into shadows. I blame Russia for many Polish losses but we are still better off with Russia as powerful and therefore I support the federation or at least a Ukraine that resembles Belarus in its solidarity with Russia.

not to mention,advocating ideologically motivated hatred towards ethnically group based on historical grievance...not only stupid but should be prosecuted

It's a pity that you do not read my posts f stop. They are not at all as you claim.


Perhaps you'd like to propose a better rule: a limit to the number of times the same lies can be told over and over and over again? I for one am getting very sick of reading 'the Nazis are in control!!!' and 'Junta!!!'


He's young, he still has a chance to learn better.


Actually his parents were Jewish (although one could argue that that wouldn't stop him being a member of the Ukrainian nation) but he was as pure a commie as they came.


Beria was Mingrelian. And when the Holodomor started he was the secretary of the Communist Party in Georgia, i.e. he had bugger all to do with the Holodomor.


Whilest that is a hugely original claim, more importantly he was dead when the Holodomor started and had been dead for the best part of a decade.


Which stops them being Russian how exactly?


Dzierzynski also died years before the Holodomor started. Are you trying to tell us that the Holodomor was the work of ghosts rather than Russians?

it seems to me that you lost the ability to concede a point. Oh, and you use "murderous scum" too much.

You want me to say that Barney is telling the truth when he is lying? Sorry but that is simply not happening.
Let me give you some examples:
- Here Barney claims "he [Yanukovych] was overthrown and replaced by someone who got 1% in the same poll." That is very simply a lie. Yanukovych was replaced by Oleksandr Turchynov (as the Ukrainian constitution requires) and Turchynov did not stand in the 2010 presidential election. Don't believe me? Fine: check the sources for this article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2010

- Here Barney claims "And the "Special forces" sent by the founder of the Ukrainian Nazi Party to Odessa just before the mass murders."

The Ukrainian special police units were sent to Odessa by Ukraine's Interior Minister Arsen Avakov
(see, for example, this article: todayonline.com/world/europe/ukraine-drafts-special-forces-after-outrageous-police-failure)
"Ukraine's Interior Minister drafted a new special forces unit into the southern port city of Odessa yesterday"). Arsen Avakov did not found the Ukrainian Nazi Party (not that any party with that name, to my knowledge, even exists) and has never been a member of any Nazi or far right political party. Barney is simply lying. Furthermore, the units were sent to Odessa after the deaths.

- Here Barney claims " The known Nazi Parubiy who is in direct control of security sent Nazi terrorists to the south and east." In reality Parubiy is the secretary of a state body which advises the president of Ukraine, he is not in control of security, Arsen Avakov is, which is why he sends police and National Guard places. And Parubiy is actually a member of the Fatherland party which is led by Yulia Tymoshenko.

Which points would you like me to concede exactly?


They are scum and they murder people: what would you prefer them to be called?
Anyway, as the PF search engine shows, I haven't used that phrase since 25 April (i.e. 20 days ago). Perhaps if you read my posts you wouldn't make untrue comments about them?

i was talking about soviet crimes in general not only Holodomor.He just blame every soviet crimes on today's ethnic Russians


"ethnic group, is a social group of people who identify with each other based on common ancestral, social, cultural, or national experience"
one could argue those international soviet Jewry were not Russian by the line of ethnic,sure some were soviet citizens,but dint share culture,ancestry ,language religion language with ethic russians ect

so what today's Russians who live in Ukraine got to do with soviet crimes .some Muppets here are cheering when those civilians in east Ukraine are murdered while we talk.

I'm glad, I took a quick look at your profile before I posted my comment, otherwise I'd be amazed, what kind of individual would compare one country's right to be free with his 'right' to be richer than BG.....thank to your profile.....I'm not amazed....;-)

I'm not surprised. ;)

The word "freedom" has so many meanings these days. ;) Don't know what one you think about.

Was Volyn massacre an expression of ukrainian freedom, for example? What about Khatyn?

yeah, what about it Velund? Tell me, who's responsible for murdering of 22000 Poles in Katyn, the Soviets/Russians or the Ukrainians?

You are not answered to my questions, of course.

Do you need a list of persons who signed orders leading to Katyn massacre? You'll find many nationalities. Beria is Georgian, Merkulov is Armenian, Soprunenko is Ukrainian, a number of jews there as well...

BTW: As of September 26, 1936, between 110 top officials of NKVD there was:

- 43 jews.
- 33 russians,
- 9 latvians
- 5 poles,
- 2 germans...

The ironic thing about them in the context of this discussion is that they were commanded by a junta. No doubt our resident Putin fanboys would have called them Nazis.


How many of those supposed Jews were also Russian?

I did, I just didn't make it convenient to you by reminding you on tragedies, you guys are responsible for. Anyways, what does it all have to do with Ukraine's right to be free? I mean, I would see it the same way if we were talking about Russia too, Velund. We all have the right to be free.

C'mon Velund, you can't possibly support the wrong doings of your government just like I don't support my current government, either. They all suck, sad but true. You see, to me loving your country has nothing to do with loving your government.

I do not feel myself responsible at all. At the same time as Katyn take place some people from my family (both from my russian and ukrainian predecessors) was in Gulag, and the rest worked hard to survive. So, you have to go somewhere else to find someone who responsible.


You operate by word "freedom", but I still not heard what you mean under this word. What Ukraine lacked last 23 years that made it failed state now?


Another ones have zero chances to survive these times. But we always can choose "least evil".

whether Ukraine is a failed state (as you say) or not, has absolutely nothing to do with its right to be free.


I assume, you're applying to Ukraine again (your words: "Ukraine lacked last 23 years that made it failed state now"), right? In that case, the least evil (your words) is to let Ukraine be Ukraine. Who are we to decide what's good for them?