Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

This is true not one country has changed its policies due to sanctions. The apartheid system was brought down by military action mainly in Angola, the support that the racists received from many especially Britain demonstrates this. Those willing to break US sanctions like the British cabinet minister who laundered drug money and facilitated Iranian banking receive a slap on the wrist. the cant and hypocrisy knows no end; For example the Libyian campaign shows what happens when you surrender nuclear weapons yet suggesting the precedent was set by Russia is dishonest.

The BBC published a report (linked above) which has been known for a long time yet we have been assured there are no neo nazis in Ukraine. Unlike the lack of irony in the more exotic posters here these Nazis do exist.

Have we? By who? If it were to be true, Ukraine would be the first country in the world which has zero neo-nazis. All countries have neo-nazis, even your own Ireland has them (not that that's a surprise, given the history of Nazis and Ireland).

However, we most certainly have been told that "Neo-Nazis are in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education the right sector and justice parties control these ministries." I wonder when those lies will be dealt with by the person who told them, i.e. you, Barney. When are you going to deal with your lies about neo-nazis?


Even by your standards that is a massive whopper, but then you are well noted for your lies about South Africa, so perhaps your lie here about military action bringing down apartheid is just you attempting to justify your inexcusable support for murdering small children who are trying to buy their mother some Christmas presents.



Yawn. Yet more of your anti-British racism rearing its ugly head.

yes,Harry.they are in control of all political economical and social life of Ukraine. banderist ideology is extremely hostile and violent to all non Ukrainian people,call it fascist or nazist or doesn't matter.its resemble and has the same features-removing ,ethnic cleansing and destroying all non Ukrainians on their land.

almost all of current Ukrainian ruling politicians comes from some sort of parties closely associated with banderism and has ideological banderist roots ,whatever "fatherland""sloboda"right sector,"radical party"",national socialist assembly"they all glorify people who committed genocides ect.

go to hell with this scum

no one really expected him to say 'ouch it hurts' lol

in any case:

"The U.S. just punched the Russian economy in the gut. Four months after the Obama administration first hit members of President Vladimir Putin's inner circle with travel bans and asset freezes over Russia's incursion into Ukraine and Crimea, the U.S. has finally done what so many people always thought it would take to get Russia's attention: target the country's state-owned banks, energy companies, and defense firms that make up the core of its resource-driven economy."

businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-17/u-dot-s-dot-sanctions-finally-hit-russia-where-it-counts

Ruble Slides Most Since Crimea on Sanctions, Stocks Drop:

Russia's currency tumbled 1.6 percent to 34.9265 per dollar at 4:27 p.m. in Moscow, the most since March 3. The Micex Index (INDEXCF) slid 2.9 percent to 1,432.16. OAO Rosneft (ROSN) headed for the biggest retreat since May last year and its bonds fell the most on record after the oil producer appeared on a list released by the Obama administration, which acted in concert with the European Union yesterday to escalate sanctions. OAO Novatek, also on the list, had its steepest decline in four months."

Another view on the newly imposed sanctions:

Though they sound more serious, the latest Western sanctions against Russia for failing to stop the war in eastern Ukraine are, again, mostly bark and very little bite. The growing disparity between the sanctions imposed by the U.S. and the European Union also raises the question of whether the two are allies in any real sense of the word.

So where are the sanctions against the former British Minister responsible for laundering drug money laundering terrorist money and helping Iran break US sanctions.

Is it only Russians and Ukrainians who must have sanctions imposed or is this a case of the US yet again using sanctions to help its own commercial sector?

dunno Barney, why don't you start a thread about it, this one pertains to Ukraine

Why don't you ask American prosecutors about that?

Anyway, back on topic: what about the lies we have been told about "Neo-Nazis are in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education the right sector and justice parties control these ministries."? Are you ever going to deal with those lies?

Given the political instability there, it's no surprise that there are some extremists, however Barney is wrong to say that they 'control' all of this. I'd be prepared to bet anyway that there are far more neo-nazis in Russia.

All? They don't control any of those ministries and never have.

However Pavel Gubarev, the self appointed 'People's Governor' of the self-proclaimed 'Donetsk People's Republic' most certainly is a neo-Nazi, a member of the neo-Nazi Russian National Unity paramilitary group which has a swastika on its flag. And then there's the 'Prime Minister' of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, Alexander Borodai, the former editor of a neo-nazi 'newspaper' noted for its poisonous anti-semitism and rabid Russian nationalism.

I wonder why Barney is so quiet about the fact that he supports neo-nazis himself. Any ideas?

As does my point, the US sanctions imposed have nothing to do with right and wrong if they did then the said former minister would be punished and Israel would be punished for annexing Palestinian land and so on.

The Kosovo led directly to the Crimea debacle, Iraq and the other wars of aggression are fine when those launching them are British or American no sanctions there. Pumping Syria full of armed Islamic nut jobs is fine but Russian interference in Ukraine is evil. The not so subtle anti Russian racism on display by nazi apologists here is sickening,

This much cant has not been seen since the days of apartheid............

Barney, you are one of the nazi apologists. As has been pointed out above, the senior leadership of the rebels you support are neo-nazis. Why have you gone from lying about people who are not neo-nazis being neo-nazis to actually supporting neo-nazis?

meanwhile in Ukraine:

well done Russia, shooting down passanger planes...

This does not look good.

bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856

any links it was shot down by the russians?
this doesnt look good at all

Just came in, it's on Polish tv right now, same mo as yesterday's downing of Ukrainian military plane (6km altitude) by a Russian plane. Malaysian airliner bound from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur at 10 km altitude (experts saying no weapons available on blackmarket could achieve that). Rip everyone, no survivors.

according to life flightradar,it was shot just above torez(MA S17). another one SIA351 approaching area.why this airspace is not closed?
RIP to those people

"experts saying no weapons available on blackmarket could achieve that"
Rebels have BUK systems,capable taking out 10km altitude planes

Very very sad. It may have been accidental and we shouldn't jump to conclusions. Doubtless the cause, whether a deliberate shooting, an accidental shooting or something else altogether will be established.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system
rebels has some of those
last registered location of this plane:

perhaps, was merely relaying the info by a Polish military expert on TV

P.S the altitudes denoted by me, I meant to type 10k feet and 6k feet respectively instead of 10km and 6km


incidentally:

Two Ukrainian Air Force aircraft were shot down in the east of the Donetsk region on July 17 evening, said Ihor Druz, an advisor to the defense minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR).

kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-claim-to-have-shot-down-two-ukrainian-planes-near-russian-border-356501.html

looks like tragic accident,some posters here and Ukrainian government already blamed Russia,which i find disgusting.so far there is nothing to suggest Russia shot down this plane.

either way responsibility lies solely on Ukrainian side,why on earth this airspace in the middle of the war zone is not closed!!!!
its like Ukrainians were hoping for that kind a accident,since rebels have no possibility to know what is flying over their head on this altitude.

mind you,just 2-3 days ago antonov was shot down on 6.k altitude in exactly same location.why on earth sending civilian plane this corridor???!!!!!!!

beside..rebels deny shooting it down,saying they have no weapon capable of reaching 10k altitude.

No, they just provided the missiles to the murderous scum who did.


Yes, because Ukrainian troops invaded Russia and started all this, didn't they, gregy.


So perhaps it would have been a good idea for them to not shoot at anything which flew.

If this is a coincidence, it's a huge one.

i dont think so..it looks like rebels shot it down.
wonder tho if existence of this plane in the middle of conflict zone is a coincidence or someone wanted it to be shot down.
this comes as a massive surprise airspace for civilian jets is open over doneck.i would never tho, civilian airlines is flying over there.someone is either incompetent or its done in porpoise

and here we go from 8 july: voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_07_08/Kiev-shuts-airspace-over-southeast-Ukraine-7090/

so the airspace was closed,who diverted plane there?

I'm not sure. Officially it isn't a war zone and civil aircraft don't generally expect to be shot down. I've flown over Ukraine a few times since the trouble started.

If the Russian-backed rebels really have done this deliberately, it's a new low. Pretty bad if they (or the other side) did it by mistake, thinking it was a military plane.

nope.. officially this airspace was closed by the Ukrainians for security reasons.
who diverted those jets there and let them fly through BANNED zone and why?

Probably yes. The flights I use head from Poland over Lviv etc and then to the Middle East.


Unlikely that ATC sent them in a banned corridor. Do we know the exact position the plane was shot down from?

Torez probably
militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236054-Ukraine-discussion-thread-Or-the-original-Butthurt-thread/page4086


somebody did,and i doubt there were Russia or Rebels.not many alternatives left.control over Ukrainian airspace lies in Kiev state aviation services.
looks like clever murder committed by Kiev,

thank you for your decency, however you may want to know the RT NEWS now claims that rebels don't have that kind of weaponry.... gotta love RT news, those twats simply have no shame

And here we go from the article you link to:


The Malaysian plane was at 10,000 m.


Oh dear: you've been caught lying yet again.