Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

ok.more like stupidity, letting civilians planes through war zone is weird at leats

Given that Kiev has no missiles capable of murdering those people, we can say no, it wasn't.


Exactly.


It isn't a war zone and air corridors are internationally regulated.

but of course,you dont see anything wrong with sending airliner through there.
when was antonov shot down in exactly same area?2 days ago?yesterday 2 Sukhoi down and you see normal sending jetliner there knowing that rebels have surface to air system ,and no idea whats flying at 7k altitude.

is that seems normal for you?

So you're blaming the Kiev government for not knowing that the rebel scum are so fcuking stupid they shoot missiles at planes without bothering to look to see what kind of plane they are shooting at?

What is not normal is you, gregy.

Everything wrong with sending a plane into a prohibited piece of airspace. This however wasn't.


It's normal not to shoot down passenger aircraft.


Looks the case, doesn't it.

i dont think they did this deliberately,this is tragedy and terrible blow for the rebels as well.


man,they dont have technology like advanced radars,and skilled operators of those systems.
they been hammered by military jets for weeks and had no idea like myself,this airspace is being used by civilian jets.
beside,for the respect of those ppl killed,lets have civilized discussion about this,not silly accusations.
"bothering to look"
Harry,can you distinguish civilian jet from transport military jet from 8 kilometers by looking at them?

If they did, they just dug their own grave. Putin is already embarrassed that more people in the east and south didn't jolin in - this is a huge setback for their so-called cause.


Does he have lethal weapons?

Don't talk utter bollocks gregy. Do you really think that before this conflict no jets ever flew over that region?


I don't point guns at things unless I know I want to destroy them, let alone pull the trigger.

yes,over military ATO zone,yes,,it comes as a shock to me that this airspace is being used by civilians jets..
and there is another development.
according to many sources this plane was diverted.it suppose to fly over mariupol.
could be propaganda,or not truth,lets wait for more informations

That would be because you appear to not bother reading the articles which you link to here.

Have you been involved in Air Traffic Control policy for long, gregy?

And meanwhile, the families of the passengers sadly have other things on their minds.

Here's the cretin Russian terrorist commander boasting about shooting down a plane.

no but i been involved and known for using common sense for very long.
both sides called for international investigation.we see whos responsible.
tho rebels have BUK missile launcher some claim they don't have radar systems to enable them to shoot down plane at this altitude and to operate BUK

nevertheless i believe it was BUK system used,but it could be Ukrainian jet shooting it by mistake.
we see


you lie..i know strelkov doesnt have a facebook account or any social media account.
its not first time ppl posting as him.this is site close to his people

vk.com/strelkov_info

icorpus.ru

this is site confirmed by Strelkov on video that its legit and his people created it.
he even state it on his website":
Currently (17.07.2014 22:00 MSK) Igor Ivanovich did Strelkov statements regarding the crash of the Boeing Malaysian airlines. All the messages that now go to various blogs and media, made ostensibly on behalf Strelkova are fake.

He has a website and had admitted it originally, until he realised it was a passenger jet. This news site picked it up:

The link isn't in English, so use google translate or something.


I don't think so.

yes i know..he stated they shoot down Antonov or SU i dont remember which.i know it.tho rebels now claim that SU wreckage is being searched.and that this SU was involved in attack on malysian jet

Until he realised what they'd done.

Someone has blood on their hands and has set back their cause.

Sad.

it looks that way

now..this is interesting: flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140715/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

check out flights before,it had different paths,so it was diverted
every single time before this,it used mariupol airspace.

Yet again you're lying: on 12 July it went south of Crimea entirely. Slightly different routes are used depending on wind directions and speeds.

still,doneck airspace was never used before.
now take notice that several jets were shot down recently and the fact that Kiev was very well aware that BUK is operating there.even 2-3 days before antonow was shot down there at high attitude.

looks like Kiev was taking chances hoping it will get shot down.

apparently that region is the main thoroughfare for flights from Europe to Asia

here some contradicting information about flight zone in Ukraine.:

en.ria.ru/world/20140717/190990705/Russia-Says-Ukraine-Responsible-for-Flight-Safety-in-Boeing.html

and routers:

reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/ukraine-crisis-airplane-iata-idUSL6N0PS6CN20140717

they claim there were no restriction on Thursday regarding flight safe zone.restriction must have been lifted recently
that would explain why flight route was changed by malysian plane.

I just woke up and found out about the tragedy regarding downing Malaysian passenger plane.
I have no words.
At this point I won't speculate who is guilty.
Having said that, there is statement from farmer


Plane of this size being hit by surface to air missile on high altitude simply disintegrate into smithereens in midair, no way it hits the ground and brakes into two.

Also on this altitude it is impossible to see by naked eye what it is. A radar will give location and cruise speed.

Air corridors for commercial planes are well known by everybody who should know, both by Ukrainian and Russian Air Force.
Both of them would have to be out of their minds to shut down passenger airliner.

Same with the rebels, if they knew what it is, they would have to be out of their minds as well.

The question is did they have the needed hardware to shut down airliner on this altitude?


And here is the tweet link : twitter.com/RobPulseNews/status/489815856135036928

This is not ocean that plane vanishes, all evidence is on the ground.
I do hope that common sense prevail and there will be some joint international investigation.

For now I don't know what to believe (who is guilty)

me neither. It can be anybody, from political to simple business circles.

In any case, you can bet that those who died don`t care.

rebels are know to have BUK launcher for long,tho u need much more than launcher to use it..like radars and so on
CNN a military analyst has said unlikely rebels can do something since without expertise and tracking radars you can't shoot down airline with buk sitting around in military storage. Either it is Russians or Ukraine

same thing says polish experts
but then again,antonov went down on 7k altitude 2 days ago..so i dunno,maybe they used manpad,tho manpad has 3-4 k range

both have foe-friend recognition systems operational, the rebels don't...

do you think,in light of such tragedy is there are chance ,those people wake up and sit by the table to resolve their differences?

80 kids died there ..enough of this bloodshed

the experts say otherwise, all the talks and the planned future talks have been suspended

But their families care.


It is not impossible, call this "dumb luck" passenger airliners are cruising on relatively slow speeds without luxury of evading incoming missile comparing to combat warplanes.

Whoever did it, had no clue what they are shooting at. And if they did, then it is an outrage.
As I mentioned Air Corridors are well known to everybody. It could be a human error, someones finger was itchy to press the button.

[quote=PC_Sceptic]As I mentioned Air Corridors are well known to everybody. It could be a human error, someones finger was itchy to press the button./quote]

well,there is some issues regarding this corridor.: check other dates of this plane routes:

flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140715/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

this flight was diverted to its unusual route for some reasons.

the 'whoever ' is purely academic by now, the Ukrainian army weren't shooting at any planes as the pro-russian rebels don't sport any air fleet. However it is well known fact the rebels were the ones hunting Ukrainian air-force planes over quite some time now....