Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

stop calling strangers to intervene in Slavia, will you. Give chance to Slavic children to grow up as Slavs. Go sit with Russians and talk. Drink vodka, if you must

well said....you are star Crow

sure. Svetovid guides me and plus Jesus smile

In any case, I don't see Crimea coming back to Ukraine. And at the best scenario (for Ukraine) East Ukraine having autonomous state status.

As for the future of remaining Ukraine I see no hope either. To get any loan from IMF and/or EU they would have to meet the criteria of therapy shock economic plan.. they are standing in place for almost 20 years.

And I don't see a regular Ukrainian Joe, agreeing to shock therapy economic that would take years thus I see more protests.
12 milliard dollars is a drop in the bucket, they need 3-5 times more to crawl out of poverty and nobody will give them this amount.

There were and are offers of peace, but Russia chose to kill civilians and Ukrainian soldiers. We are losing people everyday as the result of the Russian aggression. Now Putin's terrorists shoot down even the civilian planes - this is an act against humanity and should be brought before the court in the Hague; arming the scum to destabilize Ukraine, Europe and the whole world. Putin is a new Hitler and the only way to stop this lowlife is to pressure him economically and militarily. He won't stop otherwise. Serbian chetniks stand on the side of Russian terrorism. I am not surprised here. I bet everyone here, even Slavs like myself, are tired of your Slavija crepe. I want to live in a world of intelligent people of different nationalities, not in some idiotic formation with racial forbearing.

and again. Just for the record. i don`t taking your opinion as an opinion of average Ukrainian.

But anyway,... Look what strangers done to Yugoslavia

Go talk to Russians!!! don`t scream like a woman! Ukrainians have right to exist as unique nation. Ukrainians have right to have their state. Same rights have Russians. Now, you don`t want to live in one state? Fine. Negotiate about borders. Its very simple.

yes..Ukraine could give them some autonomy,like N.Ireland and terrorism stopped there.
[


i guess they will force them to sell all national assets

We have borders - there is nothing to negotiate. As to Yugoslavia - it was always a fake formation, just like Soviet Union. Like the Russians, the Serbians wanted to live off the backs of other nations. In your case, these were Croats, Macedonians, Slovenians, Chornogoriya etc. You have your country - build it up yourself and live happily. But no, just like Russians who want to have yet another piece of Ukraine (just like they took away pieces from Georgia), you want pieces of Croatia or Bosnia and Herzogovina. It is not going to happen and the massacring hundreds of innocent people won't go unnoticed. Putin and his clique of terrorists will pay for these deaths.

says banderist,UPA Admirer

We will never solve this issue.
This thread is bound to be alive for the next century.

I am hungry

Crow, stop ranting about Slaveia: nobody in this part of the world cares about that rubbish. Poland is in the EU, Ukraine very much wants to join the EU. Stay in your mythical world for as long as you want, but at least try to understand that here nobody is interested in your fantasy world, here we live in the real world.

But what would poor Crow do without his little delusion? I can't imagine him having anything else in his life other than fantasizing about a united Slavic commonwealth where Poles and Russians embrace each other in eighteenth century costume. We in Poland know the truth that Crow and his young Canadian admirers will never accept: Polish people spend more time thinking about Burkina Faso than about Serbia or the Shangri-la Slavia.

........

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  putin.jpg
  

Does that say Peter Brookes? I thought it was by Steve Bell at first glance. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I suppose. And it's a good cartoon.

yep

Today at my weekend house (Fruska Gora Mountain, banks of Danube river), cevapcici were on menu. Still, i couldn`t resist to visit Polishforums (via my mobile) and to see what you guys doing.

Anyway, i contemplated how is all this good for Slavic world (this in case with Ukraine and previously with Yugoslavia). For too long our civilization just dying. It becomes boring. So, we shall soon see end of Her or, if i think correctly, Her uprising. The endgame is near.

to me,seems like peace can only be obtained through national consensus and negotiations.
Lavrow has been talking about necessity of peace negotiations for months,but Kiev refuse example is even their rhetoric.they call separatist "terrorist"which exclude any option of negotiations since you don't talk with terrorists.

the onley way to change this ,is pressure from USA and Europe on Kiev government to talk with rebels.they have massive influence on Kiev,but as we know this is not happening.Kiev wants blood and western world is supporting ATO fully.

well.Kiev chose civil war instead ,we see if that's good idea i guess

Talking, not doing. They even have a recruitment office for terrorists in Moscow.


This week's tragic events prove beyond doubt that the word terrorist is sadly accurate.


WTF?

The Dutch embassies in Kyiv (Ukraine) and Moscow (Russia):

Another photo from Kyiv tonight:

yes, yes. That`s how it goes. i know. i was member of OTPOR (Resistance).

Then it proved that OTPOR members in Serbia don`t confuse democracy with betrayal of their country. So, we wanted democracy, changes and prosperity for the country but, in the same time to exist as Slavs. That was not in the interest of EU/NATO leading powers and, OTPOR stooped to be interesting to them. Democratization of Serbia wasn`t enough to powers of so called west. No, they wanted maximal weakening and partition of Serbia.

God knows what they planing for the Ukraine. In any case, they doing great propaganda job there. Believe me, i recognizing THEIR hand work. They knows where to put cameras, photographers, how to mobilize masses,..


They knows even where to send plane to crash. Yes. Now, i don`t say that they sent that plane but, what i know- they are capable to it.

You know what. In comparison to EU/NATO leading powers, unfortunately or maybe fortunately, Russia is like a little baby. no, Russia isn`t perfect but, ih THESE things. Russia simple, unfortunately or maybe fortunately, can`t be compared to THEM.

It didn't crash; it was blown out of the sky. It was on the same flight path as other planes. Your fantasy about the dark forces of the West have addled your mind. You are no longer capable of looking objectively at anything connected with your beloved dream of a united slavic commonwealth.

Exactly.


There are no `dark forces of the West`. There are only financial interests. If we speak of the magnates of the leading EU/NATO countries, sometimes we all gain something from cooperation with them. Sometimes, we are obstacle and victims.

Obviously, BA and AirFrance knew something, because they routed clear of that area. Local ATC should have closed that airspace because they were aware of what was going on, but instead, they were playing politics, trying to "punish" Russia by restricting the area over Crimea, which made no sense at all.

This should be a lesson to all about giving support for any "rebels". Does US know how is the 5 BILLION they giving to Ukraine used?

West would be more than happy to place Putin's finger on that trigger, but ironically, if these morons had Putin's full support, they would have been able to tell a commercial aircraft from military.

In South Ossetia and Abkhasia in Georgia, Crimea - in Ukraine, territories which were occupied by terrorist country called Russia within the last 6 years have no allowed international planes to land. These are occupied territories and if the countries whom these territories belong to cannot currently administer the air traffic because of the military invasion of Russia, the flights should not be allowed. Or do you think that the Russian terrorists should direct the planes' landing in the occupied regions?


What do you think? The US BORROWED the money and Ukraine will pay it back. There is always control over what money are spent for in the case like this.


No need. Despite all the attempts Putin makes to come clean of killing these innocent people - he is a murderer, who supplies the weapons and his military to Ukraine to destabilize the region and kill people in order to grab more and more land from other countries.


Would have, could have. The Russians shot the plane and now they even shoot at OSCE observers, preventing the due investigation. There are facts of marauding, stealing and using the credit cards found at the crash side by these lowlife Putin's scum. The international community should be very resolved to bring in all the pressure necessary to not allow this multiple murder of the shot plane without the investigation and punishing all the involved. If this happens, there will be more blood shed by the Russian fascism of Putin.

according to Ukra sources this area was suppose to be close:

,someone diverted this jet there.this route was unusual for this Jet and according to some sources pilot changed route to save fuel :

or according to some polish media pilot change route cus he had "bad feelings"

this stinks big time

What stinks, Gregy, are your lies: that space was closed to low altitude flights but open to high-altitude transit flights, as was made crystal clear in the source you linked to a couple of days ago. That man was introduced when everybody thought that your hero in the Kremlin had only given the terrorist scum shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles.

I am still not entirely convinced which morons did shoot that plane. It's curious that western media doesn't like to point out that the Ukrainian military has the BUK system as well. People I talked to are convinced that this capability was only on the Russian side.

And Nathan, nobody gives a **** if the area is occupied or not, there were no incidents of airplanes getting shot over Crimea. Ukrainians should have declared the Easter Ukraine restricted zone if they were not playing irresponsible political games.

Nice try, f stop, but as the terrorist scum don't have an air force, the Ukrainians don't have anything to shoot at. Oh, and the Ukrainian govt did restrict airspace in eastern Ukraine. Do feel free to keep telling the Kremlin's lies anyway.

No, they did not, Harry.
Cash-strapped Ukrainian government was receiving overflight fees for each commercial flight above its territory and therefore had a financial incentive to keep the airspace open as long as possible.

Three days before MH17 was apparently shot down by a surface-to-air missile, Ukraine had raised the minimum altitude open for commercial flights over the eastern part of its country to 32,000 feet, from 26,000 feet previously after a military cargo jet was downed at 21,000 feet.

Not good enough.

correspondent for Russia Today resigned....saying RT is "spreading lies" for Vladimir Putin."

link(s):
theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/18/russia-today-correspondent-resigns-over-stations-total-disregard-of-facts-surrounding-malaysian-airlines-crash

huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/sara-firth-resigns-russia-today-lies-anchor_n_5598815.html

This is not the first time that journalist, quits the RT network, by feeling uneasy being used to spread propaganda.