Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

Not that day they didn't. You're lying yet again.


Somebody shot a plane down in that area on that day. Some people say they did it and they certainly had the capacity to do it. That's more than enough proof.


Don't bother with your bizarre conspiracy theories: if we wanted to be exposed to those, we'd watch Russia Today.


Has it been said by any source more reliable than Russia Today?
Here's an example of Russia Today lying about this topic:


rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/

We can read the same story here: /Russian-Military-Says-Detected-Ukrainian-Su-25-Fighter-Plane.

And here: english.pravda.ru/news/hotspots/21-07-2014/128114-ukraine_boeing_russia-0/

But problem is that the SU-25 is a close ground support jet that can't get anywhere near 10km. So how did Russia react to getting caught lying? By trying to change reality:


pressimus.com/Interpreter_Mag/press/3486

Please stop telling the Kremlin's lies here.

CNN 2014 07 29

Ballistic missiles used by ukrainian gov't forces

youtube.com/watch?v=y9-8KvtfjZA

You're not being honest (and serious) now, but it's not my problem.


Stop calling them that. You don't call Israel or America terrorists, do you?


Again, how do you know? This is not what everybody says. Stop being ridiculously stubborn. If your goal is really the truth, then you should start by calming down a little (which includes stopping to call everyone 'liars' and 'Kremlin boys'), and opening your mind a bit more. This is some good advice. Think about it.


Talking about this?


theburningplatform.com/2014/07/21/whistleblower-u-s-satellite-images-show-ukrainian-troops-shooting-down-mh17/


You can make fun of Russia Today all you want, fact is that Russia gave all the evidence it has. The US didn't.
But you'll be rejecting anything that comes from Russia, before you get a chance to know if it's worth any kind of interest, because...well, they must be lying. That's your credo.


I'm not using any lies, I don't have any personal interests in that conflict, I'm just trying to be neutral (you should try that someday), and to understand what really happened on that sad day.

As Robert Parry (George Polk Award winner) said, this is an information warfare. Maybe nothing can be really trusted. That's why prudence and patience are required.

Isn't Infowars the creature of that lunatic Alex Jones?

Yes, Roger, it is.

Polson knows that tape is not what I'm talking about. He knows I'm talking about the boasts on social media by the terrorist scum. But for some reason he doesn't want to talk about those boasts. Just as he doesn't want to talk about the Kremlin getting caught telling lies about things like Ukrainian close air support jets which can't fly at anything close to the altitude the Kremlin claim. And he doesn't want to talk about the Kremlin editing wikipedia so it supports their lies. I wonder why he doesn't want to talk about any of that.

No, I don't. I thought I knew, but please feel free to link it to me.

Two propagandas facing each other, you chose one. You decided to believe one side of the story. I decided to stay neutral and consider any possibilty. Call me crazy, liar, anything you want, I feel more honest than you. Your aggressive answers won't change that.

This world is doomed to a quick death if people keep behaving this way.

It is simple for simpleminded people.
All the cities were built by Russians, the Russian Empire fought over the Crimea, most of the population is Russian. What is Ukrainian there ?
Only the act ( "Khrushchev's Gift" ) to transfer the Crimea to the Ukraine is Ukrainian.
Simple as that.

I think it's a good thing everybody is up in arms over Putin's "Propaganda war". It should raise awareness over media manipulation and subjective reporting on all sides. Although here, it's called marketing.

Marketing tends not to kill people.

Harry missed the point. It's all semantics, and refers to pretty much the same thing.
That said, calling the opposite side scum, does fall closer to propaganda war than marketing.

I like your post and agree with it but for me it's not a question of black-and-white comparison, rather a cool-headed and comprehensive pros and cons calculus in which Russia/Russian influence loses by quite a bit to its alternatives and people really do deserve better.

It is truly sad that west of Europe/USA profit from conflict between Ukrainians and Russians, that Slavic disaster. It is like that two Whites fights and Gypsy (with all due respect) coming to offer its services to one of them, in order to profit himself.

When west mess with Slavs, a world war happens (WW1 & WW2). But they never learn, too greedy and corrupt to think logically.

Yet more brilliant analysis from PF's resident historian. Work on the articles, kid, and I don't mean the cut and paste crap from wiki.

Humm

Poland is the largest exporter of apples in the world. In 2013 it exported apples worth 438 million euro ($587 million), of which 56 percent went to Russia, according to Poland's Ministry of Agriculture.

"I'm expecting the Polish apple producers to suffer," Witold Boguta, representing Poland's Association of Fruit and Vegetable Producers, told Reuters.

By first targeting Poland, which was part of the Soviet bloc until just over two decades ago, Moscow is striking at one of the EU's most strident supporters of increased sanctions against Russia for its backing of rebels in eastern Ukraine.

Poland Ukraine
Land for gas?

The basic deal is that Ukraine gets to join the EU in exchange for promising to not join NATO (which seems not too bad). But Ukraine also has to sign over Crimea to Russia in exchange for getting cheap gas in place of the rent which Russia used to pay for the bases in Crimea before Russia just stole all of Crimea and the gas there. In short, it's a rubbish deal for Ukraine.

What interests me is that Germany is trying to 'broker' this theft by Russia; to me that says Germany was getting rather worried about the prospect of sanctions against Russia hurting the German economy. I say 'was' because this deal was being discussed before the Russian proxy forces in Ukraine murdered hundreds of EU citizens: right now Germany must be very worried about sanctions against Russia hurting the German economy.

The International Monetary Fund warned in May that Moscow had no contingency plan for such a scenario, so a sustained tumble in the price of crude could even undermine Putin's grip on power.

"If the oil price goes down to $75 and stays there for a few years, Russia will have regime change," said a prominent Russian economist who asked not to be named.

"Two years ago I would have said $60, but now, given the lack of growth, the increase in corruption and sanctions, $75 would be enough."

trust.org/item/20140731140302-kl74g

The article is a hoax, Harry.

A hoax in the independent???

No.

Yeah, I forgot. LOL!

Two thirds of Russians against sending troops to Ukraine

Tanjug, ITAR-TASS


Make love, not war

Russian military expert confirms that the missiles were shot from Russia onto Ukraine's territory:

youtube.com/watch?v=ZD1nGmslhrg

Polish people are using apple-eating selfies to give Putin the finger

qz.com/242880/poland-is-taking-apple-eating-selfies-to-protest-russias-produce-ban/

• 
  apples.jpg
  

Civilised countries are going to have to get used to the idea of taking significant hits in the process of taming the Russian bear. It beggars belief that countries like Germany got themselves into the position of being heavily dependent on Russian energy. It just goes to show how clever people can do stupid things. To have become so reliant on energy from a country which emerged from communist mess only to become an aggressive kleptocracy was madness. Poland must now find other markets for its apples, and fast. Luckily, apple juice can be powdered and preserved, or kept as syrup for long periods.

Who are they?


When you have no natural resources at hand, this is what you do, you buy your energy from countries who do have natural resources. Every country, civilised or not, knows that.


This is Poland's problem. Nobody forced them to impose an embargo on apples exports to Russia. Unless...someone actually did force them? Eh, who cares.

most of what you wrote is tragic nonsense or warmongering and you simple choosing side in conflict. But, as we all know, when one start to choosing sides one mostly choosing on the base of his prejudices, interests, etc. You also fall in this trap

So, let me just give comment on this part...


... What Poland must is to initiate creation of new Commonwealth. Only that can protect interests of Poland and make her products desirable equally on west and east of the globe.

See, Poland, Warsaw or Krakow, to say particularly, are center of entire civilization that is now subjugated to Brussels (read NATO and EU). Its not normal situation, same way as it wasn`t normal when Russia controlled Poland.

Only in Commonwealth Poland would blossom. Now, we came to the point.... same goes for Ukraine (after finishing its negotiations with Russia about real border between two states).


same question crossed my mind, too.

Tell you what, Crow, you ignore me and I'll ignore you. By the way, how's your head?

while you fails to ignore me, you didn`t fails when it comes to personal insults, i see. It telling much about your arguments, you know. You aren`t right and instead to admit it, you humiliates yourself.