Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

Thanks, but is that the Norway TV footage or Russian TV footage? I would like to see the Norway TV programme that was shown on German TV, if possible.

Of course, the stills seem to come from this footage, which is not necessarily the Norway TV footage.

and who is Gubarev?does he command battalions of neonazi soldiers and commit murderers and war crimes?
guy is 5 minutes hero when he stormed building and call himself governor .lol
i never said there are no crazy individuals in Donetsk army.one thing is some idiot in ranks of army,another thing is when government allow to create neonazi militia battalions,arm them and sent them in some punitive ATO operation,where they commit war crimes on daily basis.reward them and cover their crimes,like in Odessa,mariupol and hundreds other places

mind you,strelkov executed 2 of his militants for looting,...see difference?

one thing interesting...i watched press conferency of aidar,azov and donbass commanders yesterday.
they seriously wants to go and fight against Kiev government and establish dictator.they told this several times before but i tho they just angry cus army is not helping them.but something is baking there.

the guardian reported the same in today's article.one of those guy,predicted poroshenko will be murdered within a month and dictator will take his place.they speak of this march on kiev very often,even they spoke to join donetsk army...am serious

According to Your Master's Voice, he is "a hero of the People's Republic of Donetsk".
english.pravda.ru/society/stories/17-06-2014/127816-pavel_gubarev_donetsk-0/


Come now, gregy, you really must make sure you keep up with the latest truths. Your Master's Voice insists that Gubarev was elected:


rt.com/news/155452-russia-ukraine-political-repressions/


Who knows? What we do know is that he is proud to have been a member of an organisation which has the swastika for its emblem.


Gubarev is not some idiot in the ranks: he is the leader of the People's Republic of Donetsk and a neo-nazi.

Why do you support open neo-nazis, gregy?

[quote=gregy741]
i found that video 0:11:
youtube.com/watch?v=jrhCely0pAc
Good job Gregy741.
moving image not photo.
Why only 25 views, and during all the video as we are seeing practicing Ukrainians the moment see close ups with the two soldiers with swastikas on helmets, they are shown up from very close range the video is obstructing their faces and I cannot see background that those two were in fact mingling with the rest.

Doesn't prove anything but it makes me curious.
I want to see the Norwegian reportage.
Now I am surfing Norwegian newspapers, thus far "nada"

Greggs, baking there?


If I understand you correctly, are you saying some of the swastika brigade allegedly in the Ukraine army actually are opposed to Kiev and the Ukrainian government? Yet they are fighting for them? Now I really am lost, I have literally lost the plot.

here,conference of azov,aidar and dnepr battalions:
:
youtube.com/watch?v=rwsNEKI1txQ
Commanders of Azov, Aidar, and Dnepr saying they will be protesting tomorrow (September 4) at the president's office. They have numerous grievances to voice to the president regarding the ATO. As a reminder, Semen Semenchenko of Donbas Battalion together with other volunteer battalion commanders have recently voiced their concerns to the president as well (see previous video I posted).

Some translation of what these guys said:
- They believe there is a movement to eradicate the volunteer battalions.
- They are upset leadership and oligarchs that they believe started this war have not changed and are still in power.
- They said they are fighting with many guys they used to serve with and would like an answer why they are made to be killing each other.

- They are largely of the opinion this war has been manufactured by those in power in Ukraine.
- They say it's wrong that if they go to European Union, Russia is their enemy. If they go to Russia, European Union is their enemy. He says that maybe both are our friends instead? Why treat either one as enemies?

- He says if European Union is not helping them, why are they wanting to go there?
- Interestingly, a captain from Donbas Battalion interjected and says he somewhat disagrees with the guys in that their battalion's position is that they want Ukraine to be part of EU and NATO.

- They say that both sides (separatists and them), instead of killing each other on an open field and having the winner march on Kiev, should perhaps march on Kiev together.

seen dozen of videos like this...2 days ago,some donbass battalion commanders and soldiers summoned press conference accusing battalions of massive war crimes.and they baisiccaly believe that Kiev wants to get rid of them, deny military support in battlefield and so on..it was even massive protest on streets of Kiev demanding Kiev authorities to military support of battalions which are left without help.and oligharhs things,and they dont support EU and NATO membership

read this:
theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis


i love greggs bakery,especially their custard doughnuts with chocolate on top

I am with you.
I am slowly giving up on this thread. Too much confusion. Too much propaganda, from all sides.
As I understand Russian lingo and don't need subtitles. Same when reading Russian & Ukrainian online newspapers.
Winter is coming. I will wait for spring.

this new goverment and forces are only bound by desire of ukrainian territorial unity and hatred to russians.
nazis and radicals are far from being pro Europe and pro nato, banderist from fatherland and sloboda somewhat pro Europe. only klitschko people were fully pro europe but they are marginal.

right sector are against oligarchs tho private battalions are sponsored by oligarchs,and so on and on
basically they married now cus its against russia and pro russian seps,but as soon as war is over they will fight against each other

That's very true! Your hero of the People's Republic of Donetsk, Pavel Gubarev, is a nazi and a radical but is completely anti-Europe and anti-NATO.

if you are interested in this conflict,here i give you some links:

amazing video and images only(not graphic,no violence):
militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236005-Situation-in-the-Ukraine-Crimea-*Photos-Videos*-ONLY

discussion,very informative,some fanboys,but lots of good links to front line news 6.500 pages.i went through them all:
militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236054-Ukraine-discussion-thread-Or-the-original-Butthurt-thread

this site is information from rebels commanders on ground,they post what they done everyday.:
vk.com/strelkov_info

strelkov private webpage:
strelkov-info.ru/

best is colonel assad blog,with tons of maps and images and informations but i don't go there because is graphic images

Good to hear that. And where in those six and a half thousand pages can we find an explanation by your hero of the People's Republic of Donetsk, Pavel Gubarev, of the use of the swastika by the organisation he is/was a member of and which he is so grateful to?


Thank you for that, gregy. Shall we conclude from your post filled with nothing but insults and lies that nowhere in a total of six and a half thousand pages of very informative discussion with lots of good links to front-line news can we find an explanation by your hero of the People's Republic of Donetsk, Pavel Gubarev, of the use of the swastika by the organisation he is/was a member of and which he is so grateful to?

you welcome,,,i hope you will see your wrongdoings and repent from those useless rants in the future.and your primitive biting and provoking is obvious.


gubarev is nobody now.hes in russia with his wife collecting funds..hes teenage age stupidity should not be use as an excuse for nazi battalions to commit war crimes.you use it to whitwash criminals like azov and their crimes

God loves Slavs. Peace is possible. Possible, despite all internal problems within Slavic world and despite all foreigners who would like to profit on Slavic disasters.

17-th sep comming ,get popcorn ready,,watch banderist scum running away to Canada ,like their cowards fathers did

i heard these days that some month ago banderists committed crimes in areas populated by Ukrainians and Russians who are of Serbian origin. After locals called Serbian Chetniks for help, heavy clashes occurred between Chetniks and bandersists.

Guys look at this:
w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=52150

after number of accusation from several international org. regarding Ukrainian army committing war crimes,Ukraine responded with bill : "dismissal of military personnel and other persons from criminal responsibility and punishment for committing acts which are signs of war crimes"

this if fokin joke
..instead punnish criminals,they allowing war crimes


errr..Ukraine is legalizing war crimes committed on Russian population by its nazi thugs...rapes,murders.executions,robberies,tortures :

w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=52150

Well, kiddo, if you only you read and understood what you are providing the links for. The bill regarding the forgiveness for the war crimes was submitted into the Ukrainian parliament by its creator Mr. Kalcev, who is MP from the Party of Regions, that same party to which belonged Yanukovych, that same dictator who got scared by Maidan movement and who escaped to Putin for protection. The Party of Regions together with the Commies (their close comrades) make up around 50% of the parliament and are still there. This is the reason we have earlier elections to get rid of this anti-state scum left-over. So, the deputy from this party, which is pro-Russian and anti-Ukrainian as you can get offers this bill in order to cover the bases for the criminals of the so-called DNR and LNR who committed the war crimes. This bill will not pass, because the Commies are already gone. People who commit war crimes will be punished and that is what Ukraine stands for. No matter the side.

i dont care who is kalcev and on whose initiative he proposed bill.and what is his agenda in this corrupted joke of parliament,who trying to legalize and pardon war crimes.you dont know "reasons" as often "reasons" are given to cover real agenda.so far ukrainian forces comited massive war crimes,and dont tell me this bill is to pardon DLR crimes...

where is investigation into odessa massacre?

DRUNK poroshenko in mariupol:
youtube.com/watch?v=caE29gdmo-8
drunkards,criminals,nazis...

in Ukraine region of ivanofrankist,local government official and nationalist member Wołodymyr Hołowczak formed battalion of.......children between age of 2 - 10.:

fakty.interia.pl/raport-zamieszki-na-ukrainie/aktualnosci/news-na-ukrainie-powstal-nowy-batalion-tworza-go-dzieci,nId,1496928

wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/bataliony-nie-tylko-dla-doroslych-na-zachodzie-ukrainy-swoj-oddzial-sformowaly-dzieci/xjnj0
neobanderizm on rise,Hitlerjugend

Are we allowed to now post foreign language sources with no translation provided?


Which side is led by a criminal neo-nazis, gregy? That's right, it's the pro-Putin terrorist you support, who are led by your hero of the People's Republic of Donetsk, Pavel Gubarev, a proud member of an organisation which uses the swastika as its emblem.

youtube have subtitles in english,tho need some brain cells to use this function

shocking things,every minutes from ukraine..this is some nightmare.
SBU breached into offices of ukrainian newspaper vesti.ua and keep hostages all people in building.terminated their webpage.all this because 2 days ago they published report about daughter of SBU Naliwajczenko living in new York in expensive apartment.this is vesti facebook :

facebook.com/GazetaVesti

they just uploaded video about situation on youtube 6 minutes ago..people are being held hostages inside building by SBU:

"Journalists killed on the front ATO. Security Service of Ukraine kills" Vesti "The death becomes habitual. Tomorrow troops closed all the wrong newspapers and TV channels." watchdogs "of democracy silenced and

citizens remain alone with the authorities. And unchecked power - a dictatorship" - from their facebook site

Somehow judging by economical indexes God loves more the most atheistic Slavs (the Czechs). But yeah I know... money can't buy happiness...

Well, if anyone's looking for a person to experiment on with regard to this, I'm available and happy to receive a couple of million zł to help any researcher that's out there. :)

But it can buy a Happy Meal.

Except in Crimea. Or Donetsk. And perhaps not for much longer in Moscow.

He couldn't.


Have you heard of 'kooperativ 'ozero'? Do you realize that he simply replaced old oligarchs he hadn't had control over with his close KGB-friends who have no clue on how to do business?


Rather the contrary Russia due to its size must develop local administration. The way it is right now is that some dimwitted MP from 'The United Russia' in Moscow decides what Siberia needs to have for their money. That doesn't make sense to me.


He hasn't rebuilt it. Nor would that have been 'from scratch', if he had.
Do you know the oil price at Eltsyn's and Putin's presidency? Do you know how much Russian economy dependent upon natural resources?


People don't tend to perish while chopping woods. :) Bullet was usually the cause. Not sure what you meant with 'industrialized' but do you think industrialization is worth a single life (not millions)?

And a personal... you may not answer...
You seem to spend much of your time to whitewash Russian government, to read 1000s of pages of worthless documents and rehabilitate Russian criminals who operate now in the Ukraine (Girkin and the guys). Why do you live in England? Move to Russia... there are tons of opportunities right now in my country for your sort of people. Also, if you still want to stay in England you can telework. They value online warriors and that's a great advantage of yours that you can more or less speak English (+$1 or 2 to each post).


My favourite 'Wendy's' has already fled. :(


So am I but that was an irony on my part. I had a try to predict Crow's parry.

he tried


the deal with the family was different..he gave them option,you can run business but stay out of politics or do politics but you lose business.some tho he was joking and paid price.


been donr this way in yeltsin time,it was disastrous.some republic governors and local power people become so corrupt and start selling national assets for peanuts.example even Sevmash and Amur Shipbuilding Plant that producing nuclear submarines.when Putin came to power they couldn't even find owner,finally found some guy living in Australia. roberries in massive scale


do you know what is shakhalin agreement?


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrialisation


not sure what you mean..its not worth killing or sacrificing people that sure.i never said ,what stalin did and the way he did was moral.but as a organizer he was good.


what "sort of people"?dont understand.


where do i whitewash Russian government? pointing obvious criminality of Kiev government and atrocities of its forces got nothing to do with Russia.
i dont need Russia tv or anything to see obvious crimes committed by Kiev authorities.what they do should never be condoned

Sakhalin? How is that related to my question (other than it depicts an illegal seizure of a company that has become so common at putin's presidency)?

- What time is it?
- How much you think my watch cost?


Who overlook Criminality of putin and his clique behind the cRIMINALITY of Ukrainian government. :)


Why then his friends have both the power and the (seized) business?

i got nothing against debate and criticizing Putin for whatever he did or does.but this thread is about situation in Ukraine not about Putin and his past/present.and hes wrongdoings should not be use as smoke screen or excuse for what Ukrainian government is doing.

am with Ukrainian people and wish them well and to be part of EU.but not under some criminal leadership,with violent ideology and not at the cost of thousands lives of east Ukrainians.Ukrainians are like poles,close cusin,close genetically and close culturally.i have nothing against them.only despise criminals and violent ideologies.

everywhere i post in Polish forums about atrocities people call me Putins agent.so what??? shall we be silent in regards of war crimes to be "pro European"? is that European values?

what do you think about this summary of this conflict? abit controversial but some good points:
youtube.com/watch?v=pNnsnPR_EiI

That's a propaganda produced by Rykov's department who is #1 Kremlin troll. What 'good point' did they make?

Would there be a war in Ukraine were there no support from Russia? Why do you keep brushing off the fact the ALL of the terrorists' commander just until recent were Russian citizens?

rebellion started way before russia got involved,and even after 6 months of it,evidence of Russia state direct involvement are at best weak.i been reading rebels reports from ground from day one!

what do you know about this "support"?you got info from BBC SBU and Avakov. even few days ago Russia frozen all DLR money in sperbank,rebels curse Putin everyday.


like who?belzer and khodakowski, zacharchenko, pushilin , Tsyplakov are ukrainians.strelkov was russian bolotov, and gubaryev russian too.


what terrorists???? do you actually understand terrorism definition? what terrorist attack they perpetrated?what state or organization other that Ukrainian regard them as terrorists?
you you trying to participate in discussion and coming up with this rubbish like nathan? in terms of acts of terror Ukrainian government commit ed 100 times more of them, plus war crimes.

please give me a single example of terrorist attack conducted by the rebels..go ahead


I mean Americas constant involvement in wars and conflicts -and causing unrest s,arming radicals ect- as a way to make money.it was the time when i believed USA is doing this in good will,to protect people and peace(like world policeman) but i don't believe it anymore.and sometimes it looks like someone trying to get russia into war with ukraine or make EU to terminate economic ties with russia(provocations,rhetoric they use,sanctions they demand)

yea,i dont know if its state propaganda but it seems rather some independent people thoughts.

Thank you. The last question... do you have life beyond reading 'rebels' reports? I mean seriously they must have taken well over half a day... :)

As for moving to Russia. You should ponder that option... or at the very least you can make some money posting here. I can PM you their contacts or you can google it yourselves they don't hide anymore. :)