Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

A peace plan drawn up by France and Germany is "one of the last chances" to end the conflict in east Ukraine, French leader Francois Hollande says.

If it fails no doubt the U.S. will send in defensive arms to Ukraine which would have cause for a division in NATO.



That might be a stretch Crow.
They are saying the U.S. was partly to blame because they didn't supply Ukraine with arms so therefore the Ukraine
was forced to use cluster bombs which are forbidden by the Geneva Convention.

George W. Bush said, "you are either with us or against us".

Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy has come out in apparent support of Russia (and specifically against the US), "we are part of a common civilization with Russia," adding, "the interests of the Americans with the Russians are not the interests of Europe and Russia."

Seams that Europe slowly but surely abandoning its blind loyalty to USA. USA downfall was announced by the USA role in destruction of former Yugoslavia. Serbians were first Europeans to resist to USA dictate. These days we see how Hungary tries to oppose to USA pressure. Two years ago was great scandal in Slovenia because of USA meddling in internal Slovenian politics. After all, all European countries that didn`t recognize Kosovo (that was violently seceded from Serbia due to USA involvement), also demonstrate resistance to USA pressures: Spain, Slovakia, Cyprus, etc. Have in mind that tragically died Polish president Lech Kaczinsky, also opposed to USA dictate. Belarus resist, too. Then, Russia, too. So, no wonder that France awakening and also tries to resist.

EUROPEAN RESISTANCE - It started from Serbia, from the core - from where original Western world was born

Well, of course, if even Belarus resists, surely all European countries will follow........

stop that. your thinking is yesterday`s thinking. Resistance to USA doesn`t imply that is country which resist absolutely right in any sense. It means that is USA way wrong. That on the first place. Neither Europe, neither the whole world won`t allow USA global dominance, domination of solely USA interests, from time to time USA deals with some financial circles as it suits USA magnates and, right of USA to create global rules on its own behalf.

once more public can learn why is behind conflict in Ukraine and, for which interests. Together with German side that provided ideology for the Nazi movement (banderists) in the region, it is obvious that USA consider this conflict to be USA vs. Russia conflict.

CNN refers to Ukraine's army as "pro-U.S. troops"

If the 'banderists' actually were Nazis, your Chetnik heroes would be fighting alongside them, just as they did during WWII; however, the Chetniks are instead fighting alongside the other Kremlin-commanded forces.

Serbian Chetniks were always anti-Nazi. So, Harry, receive this penetration of knowledge >>>

Polishforums

Polish WWII hero from battles against UPA, Serbian Chetnik commander- Dragan Sotirović; story

polishforums.com/history-34/wwii-hero-battles-against-upa-serbian-chetnik-commander-72809/

Pretty fed up with those nutty Ukrainians creating real hell in their country and trying to spread it into the EU.
Generally, I find it very alarming that Ukrainian nationalists are in the saddle in Ukraine and trying to further their radical agenda into the EU countries. I guess that strongman Yarosh is becoming a challenge for the safety of EU countries. Read about him here:

indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/world/2015/02/519411.html. Am I right?

Sadly historical fact yet again does not fit your fantasy world.

Well, of course you can make a big deal out of it. I guess it suits the Russian media very well. I believe that CNN has since apologized for their error. You forgot to mention that.

from Minsk...not much details so far...there was some emotional exchanges between Putin and Poro.
"The talks will probably continue into the morning,"

• 
  doesnt look like there was any peace progress
  
• 
  ...from left ..principal.parents,troubled son
  

just look at this pathetic propaganda display:
theguardian.com/world/video/2015/feb/11/petro-poroshenko-kramatorsk-ukraine-peace-talks-minsk-putin-video

and this is response from people of Pervomaisk,showing what UA has been firing at them recently:

• 
  UA war crimes continue
  

what i see is that Merkel, Oland and Poroshenko walk in front of Putin. So, if they fart, .... hm, hm, kah. On the other side, if Luka and Putin are in the mood, they can penetrate Merkel, Oland and Poroshenko from behind.

Very unpleasant situation

(AP) - Guns will fall silent, heavy weapons will pull back from the front, and Ukraine will trade a broad autonomy for the east to get back control of its Russian border by the end of this year under a peace deal hammered out Thursday in all-night negotiations between Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany.

The deal was full of potential pitfalls that could derail its implementation, however.
In announcing the plan, Russia and Ukraine differed over what exactly they had agreed to in marathon 16-hour talks, including the status of a key town now under rebel siege.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said there was no agreement on any autonomy or federalization for eastern Ukraine, a longtime demand of Russia, which wants that to maintain leverage over Ukraine and prevent it from ever joining NATO.

The citizens of Russia are showing their feelings about Ukraine with an all time high of Russian draft dodgers who are in fear of fighting and dying in the Ukraine.

sure..like last time...since day ONE from signing Minsk 1 agreement,ukra started shelling Donetsk from Donetsk airport,which was suppose to be handed over to seps. they never pulled anything before,wont do it now.unless seps spank them again.and call for ceasefire only when their troops get surrounded. idiots in kiev understands only language of force.


sure....Ukrainian civilians are flooding ukra army draft offices with joy.
nothing was achieved in Minsk,apart from fragile ceasefire,which will brake , once right sector and kiev thugs battalions start firing guns at civilians.no no autonomy or federalization...not gonna work..its only freeze combat activities for few weeks i guess.

hopefully kiev wise up and change their position,since they cannot afford war any longer. hrivna at 26 per dollar already

When are you going to learn that repeating the fantasies of your masters without question is a bad idea?
Here is the Minsk protocol:
osce.org/ru/home/123258?download=true

And here is an English translation:
interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-202-12-point-peace-plan-for-donbass-issued-by-osce/#4182
Not a word about Minsk airport.

But if we're talking about the Minsk protocol, why are your master's stormtroops attacking Mariupol? That is certainly to the west of the demarcation line.

Now, any chance of a link to sources evidencing that serving Swedish soldiers and French soldiers are fighting in Ukraine? Or could that perhaps be yet another of your fantasies? :D

And how about some sources to support your claim that Frenchmen who have no military background are serving French officers? :D :D :D

Posted on 06.02.15 at 8.20am by gregy741

Now, only 6 days later, we get to read this from our Ukraine expert gregy741


Impressive stuff........

there was a word about withdrawing heavy weapon from 30km of conflict lines


what impressive?...i said...no autonomy or federalization was agreed in Minsk..therefore i dont see ceasefire working for long.
is my english that bad?

"this is how we use "so called ceasefire"poro :
youtube.com/watch?v=dAVFhPu5fio


you forgot to add follow up memorandum...wonder why

As a German native speaker i think that it would be a bit cheeky of me to comment on your English. I leave that up to the native English speakers on here.

However, just 6 days ago you have said that federalization is the best option. Today you are saying "it won't work". I think that your thickle changes of opinion have little to do with your English skills but rather your lack of knowledge on the subject you are trying to have a discussion about.

Your Kremlin stormtroopers didn't pull their heavy weapons back, as can be seen from their attacks on the airport and on civilians in Mariupol.


There was no follow-up memorandum, that's why.


More probably it's due to him unquestioningly parroting the propaganda of his master.

Anyway, gregy, about your claim that Frenchmen who have no military background are serving French officers, any chance of a source for that? :D :D :D

Gregy


This was hotly debated in Ukraine when leaked to a ukrainian source, I posted a link to it a few pages back. It was reported in Ukraine and the English language press at the time. The Airport was in the rebel zone of control as can be seen from the published coordinates marking the separation line. It's not known who leaked the documents or why however the private battalions occupying the Airport refused to withdraw effectively holding poroshenko to ransom, the offensive launched in January from and around the airport was repulsed and the rebels went on the offensive. There is a worry that a similar thing may happen again with the Azov battalion around Mariupol.

You really should learn not to paste the propaganda of RT here. This is the exact map:


Could it be because your heroes in the Kremlin made it crystal they were not going to respect the Minsk protocol? I wonder.


You worry that Ukrainian forces might hold onto the territory which has been given to them under the latest worthless treaty signed by your hero in the Kremlin? Now there's a surprise.

Yeah yeah yeah, thickle you.........you accussed me also with those same exact words.
How about some new material or better yet, realize that you are not the thickle master of authority on the Ukraine crisis.
We are entitled to our opinions and don't need you trying to play the annoying thickle puppet master.
Putin has made it very clear that if NATO/U.S.A. (same in one) arms Ukraine it will be full on war. (WW3)
Maybe that is why he is still bringing in tanks and missle launchers in a build up.
It is on video that the United States has special forces already in Ukraine. Surprise !
Men of conscription age in both Russia and Ukraine are fleeing in the thousands or taking cover internally to escape the clutches of the military recruiters.

Do you think they know what is ahead for Ukraine after seeing over 50,000 already dead.
Ukraine and Russia are both on the verge of economic and social collapse which means war.


I have to agree with you Harry.

I have given you plenty of material regarding the Ukrainian crisis, how Euromaidan began, how it escalated, about why I am not surprised about the call for independence of Donbass etc. You have decided to either not respond to any of the points I have made or you have responded by posting links to articles which contradicted each other. Start to respond to my already given material before you ask for anything new.


How old are you?


Of course you are entitled to your opinion, as uneducated as that opinion may be. However, I am also entitled to respond to your opinion. How you interpret my responses is entirely up to you but i would suggest you stop pouting and finally start to respond to the material I have already given you. If you would do that, if you would actually make an effort to educate yourself on the beginnings of this conflict, we could potentially have a decent conversation.


And once again you are blathering out nonsense that you picked up somewhere quickly on the internet. A German newspaper has claimed that the death toll may be ten times higher than the official figure but could not back it up. That was last week. Of course Russian media and all the "expert bloggers" jumped on it and sold it as facts. I am not surprised that you also picked up on it and post it here as fact.

Now please, for the last time, act like a grown up, join the discussion with facts and stop your pouting with things like "you are not the master of authority". I am still waiting for your comments on my "material" regarding the start of this whole crisis Sit down, educate yourself on it and let's discuss.

CEASEFIRE NIT GONNA WORK!!!!!!!!!!NOT FEDERALIZATION....jezzz man ,are you that thick?


they backed up by German intelligence report..how bout that?

Don't confuse the issue with the facts Gregy or you will have the "Scholar Thickle Master' demmanding you
post your sources so he can use them in the future to promote his superior intelligence like he did with me.
I wonder how this would play out if the United States of America wasn't involved.
I would like to see NATO abolished.

Well, now i understand why you can not remember what you have written on the 6th of February, if you can not even remember what you have written yesterday. Here it is, these are your words:


I am sorry gregy but once again it seems as if you have to resort to name calling or blaming others for your mistakes. I am only pointing out what you have written here, as you can see from the quotes. If the quotes, of you what you yourself have written, do not suffice, i can also start listing the exact dates, times and post numbers for you.


I think that any adult would understand why it is important to post the sources of what you claim here. Surely you will understand, or at least I hope that you will, why we can not / should not just take your word for everything that you claim here. Of course, backing up your claims with links to blogs that clearly have a political agenda or are written by 8 year olds does not necessarily help your case.

Gregy is as familiar with facts as Baldrick was with cunning plans, and, as we all know, "Baldrick, you wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing 'Subtle plans are here again!'".

Just look at the way he insists that serving French army officers are fighting in Ukraine.


The likes of gregy and Barney do understand that it is important: they just hate to do it, because when they give sources, those sources can quickly and easily either be torn to shreds or shown to not support the claims that the likes of gregy and Barney are making.

Using dubious sources as supporting evidence is never a good thing. If discussing Ukraine RT sources are easily dismissed and should not be used unless they can be corroborated. It is more difficult to dismiss Ukrainain sources that are pro Kiev though some crazy people try to do just that.

Is that a lesson you learned by claiming that "Neo-Nazis are in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education the right sector and justice parties control these ministries" and then having your claim shown to be a fantasy?

Or is that a lesson you learned by claiming that Ukrainian Interior Minister, Arsen Avakov, founded the Ukrainian Nazi Party and then having your claim shown to be a fantasy?

Or is that a lesson you learned by claiming that the then-current acting president of Ukraine stood in the 2010 presidential elections and got 1% of the vote and then having your claim shown to be a fantasy?

Or is that a lesson you learned by claiming that special police units were sent to Odessa in response to the deaths there before the deaths actually happened and then having your claim shown to be a fantasy?

Or is that a lesson you learned by claiming that the secretary of an advisory state body to the president of Ukraine is able to control the composition of the National Guard of Ukraine and then having your claim shown to be a fantasy?

Or is that a lesson you learned by claiming that the secretary of an advisory state body to the president of Ukraine is in direct control of the security services and then having your claim shown to be a fantasy?

Posted on February 13, 2015 by WashingtonsBlog
How Blatant Can the Propaganda Get?
Guess Who Peddled 7-Year Old Photos of a Different Country As If They Show a Current Russian Invasion of Ukraine?
Senator Inhofe was duped into presenting photographs that were up to 7 years old - some of which were taken within the nations of Georgia, Ossetia and Russia - as showing a current Russian invasion into Ukraine.

Who misled the good Senator ?
Take a wild guess:
"The Ukrainian parliament members who gave us these photos in print form as if it came directly from a camera really did themselves a disservice. We felt confident to release these photos because the images match the reporting of what is going on in the region. I was furious to learn one of the photos provided now appears to be falsified from an AP photo taken in 2008."


Go ahead native Germ, be "cheeky" and tell us what political agenda the Ukraine Parliament had to mislead the United States of America.