USA News and Poland - Part 6

Novi, police job is de-escalating, not shooting around everything that moves.

I see you're not taking criticism well, even if it's constructive... :)


So BBC's report was correct after all?


...saving kids from getting murdered by a psycho.

@Paulina
Prevention in this way is also the task of the police, but it is mainly the task of politics and, for example, private security companies.

@Alien, sure, but once the police is called because some maniac is shooting kids at school, they're supposed to do their job, which is protecting/saving kids' and teachers' lives. Don't you agree?

So they did.?

@Alien, judging by the media reports the police waited too long - they should've moved in sooner. Didn't you read the articles?

No I didn't. But there will surely be a public investigation. We should wait what will it bring.

So it wasn't the police who killed the shooter, but Border Patrol tactical team:

edition.cnn.com/2022/05/27/us/uvalde-texas-elementary-school-shooting-friday/index.html

It looks like the police was waiting for an hour for that tactical team to do the job :/

Mayby they have such guidlines to wait for a special forces.

@Alien, not after Columbine. The protocol changed after that shooting. The police is supposed to go in immediately and they did in Texas, but then withdrew:

kron4.com/news/bay-area/former-swat-team-member-speaks-on-police-response-to-mass-shooting-in-texas/

NBA Warriors coach getting emotional over the Texas shooting:

bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-61576574

He said that 90% of Americans support backround checks, but 50 senators are blocking it.

Nothing new P.
90% of Americans support lower gas prices and defending our Southern border too.

@johnny reb, are there no referendums in the US?:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum

I think I remember reading that the police in that Texas shooting withdrew, because they were "outgunned" and they were waiting for "body armour"... Does that mean they had no bulletproof vests? I thought that bulletproof vests are a standard for the US police... And what kind of weapons the police in a town in Texas is likely to be using? Does anyone know?

Taser?

There is a difference between a bullet proof vest that all police wear all the time that protects their torso.
Then there is body armor that protects the whole body.
The police generally carry a .40 caliber handgun on them, in front of the car a 12ga. shotgun while in the back of their car they carry the same kind of weapon the shooter had.

America has spent a lot of money training the local police on how to engage an active school shooter.......for what.
They are not going to risk their lives when they have a S.W.A.T. team that have body armor, tactical weapons and are highly trained for such a scenario who take twenty minutes or longer to arrive on the scene after the fact.

You can bet that there are going to be some hefty lawsuits for neglect starting with why the back door of the school was left open and unlocked.

Have you noticed that I have not engaged in this topic for the mere reason we all know what the problem is.
If all those parents had guns, were allowed to enter the school themselves, you can bet there would have been a lot less deaths.
While the police were handcuffing the crowd who were trying to get into the school did you see the one lady push past the police, jump the fence and go and rescue her kids herself ?

I am expecting the Liberal woke to have her arrested for disobeying a police officers order. :-(

In the US? Come on...


Wait a minute, wise guy... According to this article since September 1, 2021 you don't need a permit nor go through a training in Texas to buy a gun!:

texastribune.org/2021/08/16/texas-permitless-carry-gun-law/

You'd have to be 21 years old though... That boy wasn't... So how did he get those guns legally?

Well...

In Texas rifles do not require licenses to be carried in public... O_O

Wow... Just wow...

Sorry, guys, but that's just f*cked up.


In Texas? Since when Texas is liberal?

Since 18 in cases of people with family issues etc. From what I read

I don't know about this case however they have all sorts of ways, One is 'gun fairs' which are a way of getting round the law. There are other ways too.

Soon there'll be nobody left there. They'll all have shot each other.

@jon357, he bought those guns legally. He didn't need to "get around the law", because you don't need a gun license to buy a rifle in Texas.


Sorry, Lenka, but I don't understand your comment ... My question was rhetorical, btw, because I know why he was able to buy those rifles legally.

In case people didn't bother to read it...:


...I'm going to quote a fragment:

"Starting Sept. 1, most Texans will be able to carry handguns in public without going through training or having to get permits. Law enforcement officers worry that could make their jobs more dangerous."

No sh1t...

Sorry, thought you asked genuinely as you mentioned that it was supposed to be from 21 yo

@Lenka, no, it was rhetorical... I asked the question and then I answered it myself ("In Texas rifles do not require licenses to be carried in public... O_O") :) Sorry if that was too confusing. It was supposed express my shock at the fact that you can buy a semiautomatic rifle in Texas without a permit...

Even worse...

Yes, the scum is there too.
Where I live it is legal for a law abiding citizen to openly carry a firearm.
And we have never had a problem because of it.
So that ain't the problem.
What the problem was in this case is one minor detail that is being left out of the equation which is:
The school authorities had been notified that there was a potential threat with a man in the area carrying a long gun BEFORE he enter the school unchallenged !

It took the school a full 10 minutes before they locked down the school after the shooter had already entered.
That will be the first lawsuit for neglect on the school's authorities.
None of that would have happened if they would have been doing the job that we paid to have them trained to do.
They fvcked up big time so place the blame were it belongs.

I see, thanks.


So in theory they shouldn't be "outgunned"?


I was thinking that maybe they weren't trained for that kind of situation... But judging by what you wrote that's not the case...

@johnny reb, where did you get that info that the school was warned about the shooter?

As for blame, it looks like the school didn't care about the safety enough (unlocked door). It's possible that the police failed too.

But, imho, most probably none of this would happen if the boy needed a permit to buy those semiautomatic rifles. A permit with a backround check by the local police, a psychological and medical evaluation, a gun training. I think that could root out quite a few such nutjobs from among the gun owners. Don't you think?

It's all over the news here this a.m.


When you have twenty or more cops with the same weapons plus thermal imagining equipment that the fire department has to locate people in a building, you would think within that hour they waited to go in they may have at least made an effort to located which room this guy was in.

And like I said P, I really don't want to rehash the what "if's" all day because we were not there to know the "how comes."


I can't speak for that particular school but ever school and police department in Michigan is trained for what to do with an active shooter.

One of the best things designed so far are the little cheap wedges that are slid under a door from the inside that holds the door open or shut.

wedgeit.com/

Wanna guess how many class rooms in the U.S. have them ? Slim to none and slim just left town.
You can bet all your fish hooks that Ms. Atch would carry one in her pocket while in the classroom if she taught in the U.S.

A safety wedgeit, not a gun.....well......maybe both if she taught in a school of minorities. :-/

Now as bad as you Socialist gun grabbers want to spew your gun debate propaganda, please can it.
We have debated that moot issue until the cows come home.
Let's stick to who, how and why the authorities dropped the ball again by not doing what they were trained and paid to do.

I mean this guy shot at people across the street and shot at the school from the outside before he entered the school but no lockdown at that point.

It took a full ten minutes after those 911 calls first came in.

Those are the questions you should be focusing on, not the gun itself.
Guns don't kill, people do.

@johnny reb, sorry, but this line "Guns don't kill, people do" is a trite. It's obvious that people kill. That's why people are being given (or refused) gun permits! That's why it's people who need backround checks, not... guns... duh!

The shooting most probably wouldn't happen if that troubled kid wasn't allowed to get a gun just like that in the first place. If he walked into a school with just his bare hands or even a knife with the intent to kill as many kids as possible, first of all he wouldn't be as successful as with a semiautomatic rifle. Secondly, it would be much easier for the police to stop him (or even teachers) if he didn't have guns, especially semiautomatic rifles with that amount of ammo.

You know, I honestly don't get you... You and Cargo_pants were criticising Novichok for his attitude towards guns, you were saying that his gun license should be revoked, but whenever such shooting happens, you behave as if you're thinking that every nutcase should have the right to own a gun, that there should be no backround checks, etc. You behave as if restrictions on gun ownership wouldn't change anything... But the truth is that most probably they would change something, maybe even a lot. Why do I think that? Because thanks to stricter gun laws in Poland we don't have such mass shootings in Polish schools ...and churches... and supermarkets.

Btw, I don't mind guns. I simply think that not everyone is fit to own one. In Poland you need a driving license to drive a car. You also need a license to own a gun. Why? Because in the wrong hands both can kill people. Easily. You're probably going to say that there are still road accidents in which people die even though people need to pass an exam to get a driving license. Yes, but imagine how many more accidents there would be if you didn't need a driving license to drive a car - if it was enough to just buy a car and you could drive just like that.

So, johnny_reb, are you against gun permits? Are you against backround checks? Do you think that anyone should be able to walk into a store and buy a gun, just like that?

It's trite and it's tripe.

Some of them really do pretend to believe that the answer to guns is more guns.

it could be, like switzerland with every reservist having a rifle under the bed, it's all in the culture. obv usa aka the great satan is just not up to it.

It's a more responsive and cohesive society there. And of course firearms are well controlled there and in the hands of trained adults.


Pretty well. Definitely can't be trusted with guns, as we see almost weekly nowadays

@Paulina


Its not often that I take this place serious but in this case I will.
P, you and I are 90% on the same page.
First, realize that the U.S. is a new country and was founded on guns to protect our freedoms from Europe.


Thinking with that logic we could say that all alcoholics should not be given a drivers license.
But yes P, I agree with you yet even that would only help very little however it would be a starting point.
I have gone to the gun range and had several legal gun owners who had been trained to get their gun permit have them hap hazardously point there gun at me without even realizing it.

I immediately walkout, report them to the range master, he looks at the video and proceeds to remove them from the premises with no second chance.

They get permanently banned for life.
So see, there are licensed law abiding gun owners that shouldn't possess a firearm.
Same with the loudmouths that talk smack about how good they are with a gun and how many guns they have and the such, a definite red flag that they should not have one.

Another problem is that the government lies to us so we fear their true intentions when it comes to our guns.
Until our elected officials have to follow and live by the same laws we do, I can't foresee much changing anytime soon.

No, they didn't. There were three armed cops on the premises, bored out of their fu*cking minds with just one mission: do not let anyone with a gun enter the building. To overlook an unlocked back door is beyond criminal. Instead of cruising and checking, these fat bums were probably sitting somewhere playing with their smartphones.

Then the brave fed team arrived and spent an hour deciding if to break the door to the classroom.
I will say again...Under US laws, police are not required to respond to 911 calls and protect. Police are to maintain public order and protect the system.


The police were already there before he entered!!!! Three of them and armed!!!!


Hey, you and other antigun Euroholes here...Do you have anything constructive to propose? If not, STFU.