USA News and Poland - Part 6

So more guns made no difference at all.


Rigorous gun control.


Take your own advice troll.

Meanwhile on the lighter side.......I was going to turn all my guns over to the government, but I did a background check and found that none of them are mentally stable. :-/

Gun ownership is a right--not a privilege--in the United States. However, like all rights, there are certain restrictions, like although you have the right to freely practice your religion, you don't have the right to perform human sacrifice as part of your religious practice. Each state has restrictions on gun ownership, as well as federal laws. There may be some loopholes that need to be tightened, but not much.

One thing that you never hear when this stuff comes up is the enforcement of those restrictions. What part does lack of enforcement play?

When you examine gun violence in detail, it's pretty clear that gun laws and enforcement serve us pretty well on the whole. Of the 393,000,000 firearms in the hands of US citizens the overwhelmingly VAST majority are not in the hands of people who commit horrendous gun crimes.

The issue isn't gun restrictions or lack thereof (and, for disclosure, I support reasonable restrictions and background checks), but other issues. Gun laws, themselves, will not create a gun violence immunity--a couple to few years ago, I recall a gunman shot (I can't remember if any died) people in a school in Poland...with all of the restrictions in place in Poland that shouldn't happen, right? Well, no, of course it can happen, we don't live in a fantasy utopian land.

Guns certainly have the capacity to create more lethality than knives, as Paulina points out, but that's not the point. The point is knives do kill and injure when in the hands of someone who wants to kill and injure and the will to do so.

There are studies that show a correlation between divorce and violent behavior. Same with households where neglect and abuse occur. Every school shooter has come from broken and/or dysfunctional homes--this kid in Texas lived with his grandparents because who knows where dad is and mom is a drug addict. I never hear much arguing of the need to promote stable families when these tragedies occur. Like Dirk said about walking down the street of a bad section of town in Poland presents little no real danger, whereas driving down the road through a not-so-good- part of town in America can be a life-or-death proposition. Why the difference? Could it be that Poland has a divorce rate of 0.6 (or 0.9) per thousand people, whereas that not-so-good part of town in America has about a single-parent home rate of 80% or more? Don't underestimate the danger of feral youth.

We'll never be able to mitigate these tragedies with the argument for over-reaching gun laws. It's much deeper. It also won't prevent these things from happening--there are bound to be those who slip through the cracks. For those who do slip through the cracks, we need to ensure they are met with superior force--the only thing at that moment that stops such a threat is force, unfortunately.

So, yeah, sure, let's have reasonable gun laws--background checks are a good thing. But, it's absolute derelict folly to assume that solves the problem. We need to SERIOUSLY address mental health and family life--but, unfortunately, I highly doubt anything promoting family life will be broached. And, we also need to get trained armed security into vulnerable places, like schools, malls, etc., mimic the security found in federal buildings.

Anyhow, I've reached PF fatigue. Have a great Summer.

That wouldn't be a bad idea, actually... Especially in Poland, since we have a big problem with fatal accidents due to drunk driving here...


I realise that. And, to be honest, judging by what Dirk wrote, if I lived in the US I'd probably own a gun myself, just to feel safer. But you have to start with something... to at least stop those mass shootings by psychos in schools and public places.


Link?


That was in Brześć in 2019. A famous case. The shooter was also 18-years-old. He used a black powder pistol. Noone died though. He shot a cleaning lady who was trying to stop him and a student, both survived. He also wasn't killed - as far as I remember a guard talked him into laying down the weapon (I've seen an interview with that guard on TV, he became a hero :)).

Now... imagine if the shooter had two semiautomatic rifles with loads of ammo... Sorry, but the type of weapon used does make a difference.

This is nothing new. Police are just like most bullies - tough against innocent people who can't defend themselves, pansies when they face someone that's armed.

This has been the case pretty much for every school shooting - the cops just sat around until they felt they had enough "backup" even though most cops have bullet proof vests and ARs in their trunk.

Even worse, they were preventing parents from going in. One mother managed to get in though and was able to get her kids out. To my understanding, she was arrested for that.

Is it not the "right to beat arms" without specifying the nature of those arms.

Give them peashooters or sticks...

Like I said, I don't like guns. I don't enjoy carrying one, I don't do it because I think it makes me feel "manly" or some ****, rather I do it because there is so much random violent crime and you can become a victim at any moment. That's not any sort of exaggeration either. I've seen so many shootouts and been shot at. Don't expect any help from police either, they're totally useless. The whole recent school shooting only proves that further and Texas takes law enforcement seriously compared to places like Illinois, California, etc. Even if by some miracle say you did get shot, survived and the police caught the perp chances are they'd do a couple years, maybe even a year or two if they're a teenager, get out with more clout than ever before, and do the same thing over and over again.

This is what I'm talking about, you get 16 year olds and they shoot someone but yet I don't understand how they don't get attempted murder charges, but instead a far lesser penalty of discharging a firearm. This kid will be out in a few months even though he shot some woman waiting on a bus.

abc7chicago.com/chicago-shooting-princeton-park-lafayette-avenue-cta/11893631/

fox32chicago.com/news/chicago-man-teen-charged-in-connection-to-fatal-shooting-of-9-year-old-boy-in-skokie

Another one, this time a group of 16 year olds murdered a 9 year old and shot his 5 year brother. This is Skokie, which is known as an upper middle class Jewish suburb

cbsnews.com/chicago/news/mass-shootings-in-america-by-the-numbers/

Apparently, on top of having the most murders, we also have the most mass shootings. These aren't the typical school shooting though you hear on the news. It's more where a car full of dudes will pull up to their rivals and just spray everything that moves. Funerals are a huge target too and even though CPD will station officers it doesn't matter.

When you have 13, 16, year olds shooting and murdering people with a slap on the wrist you know your society is in serious trouble. To me it's like the whole prisoner's dilemma problem - if I'm not armed, I can more easily become a victim and either myself or my loved ones end up dead, or I can carry a handgun, defend myself against against some punk kid, probably end up all over the news with people assuming that I pulled some George Zimmerman against a black kid, maybe even serve some time, but at least my family and I are still alive.

That's what the limp wristed Soy Boys use when they ruffle their feathers.
It gets just awful. Boo hoo hoo


Well said and I am with you 100% on that.
There are a lot of bad people out there.

We have our weapon expert here. Teching Americans about their laws. aren't you bussibody nagging people all over the place. Who is toxic here?


If you have that many weapons in the country, you need better laws, both to make sure that if a kid take a gun and shoot at someone he is adult enough to be hanged.

Second that mentally ill people should not be given the same rights as sane people.

@Cojestdocholery, I don't think you have to be a weapon expert to realise that you can kill more people and more easily and quickly with AR-15-style assault rifle with a magazine that typically carries 30 rounds than with a black powder pistol or a knife:

npr.org/2022/05/26/1101274322/uvalde-ar-15-style-rifle-history-shooter-mass-shooting

"The AR-15, like its military version, is designed to kill people quickly and in large numbers, hence the term assault-style rifle"


Now, aren't you a toxic bussybody nagging and teaching Americans what laws they should have! lol 🙄


What restrictions? The ownership of black powder guns isn't restricted in Poland. That 18-year-old shooter in school in Brześć had that gun because you don't need a permit to buy/own black powder weapons in Poland:

doctorgun.eu/category/bron-i-amunicja-bron-czarnoprochowa

He isn't allowed to.

Laws aren't going to fix the issue. Most of the guns used in the day to day shootings and murders are illegally acquired. If I wanted to I could buy a handgun for $50-$100 within the hour, chances are it has bodies on it. $300-$500+ for a "clean" one depending on model. AR's are double.


Thing is it's a balancing act. How sick must one be to lose their rights, be locked up, etc. versus be at home and go to doctors on their own time? One of my good friends' mothers a very well educated woman worked at a college professor for years developed schizophrenia later in life. Her case wasn't that bad but it's because she was on some really heavy duty drugs that made her like a zombie, totally emotionless never smiling, never laughing, never frowning.

Also you have to consider budgets - there is very little help for people with mental problems. They generally just get lumped in with criminals in prisons. It's quite sad. With children it's even worse. If you get a bad lot in life i.e. are orphaned or the state takes you away because your parents are ****** up, you're not going to some Victorian looking orphanage run by churches, chances are you're going to the same kind of facility that they put "troubled teens" in i.e. residential type schools where staff is basically given free hand to beat, restraint, put you in solitary confinement, etc.

There's a lot of problems under the surface that don't get talked about. We now talk about how Russia is so cruel, sending teens and old men to the front lines, well we're really no better. We treat the most vulnerable in society like ****. And don't even get me started on nursing homes...

Enforcement of laws however might.


That is the best case for high public spending, a National Healt( Service and excluding private businesses from the care sector that you've made yet.

I think that laws (and enforcing them) would most likely fix the issue of those mass shootings perpetrated by psychos at schools and other public places in the US. That 18-year-old in Texas didn't even need a permit to buy a semiautomatic rifle. Doesn't it give you a pause? Don't you think that should be changed?

That's the thing, like I've said a million times, de facto and de jure are two different things. De jure if I go shoot some innocent women, I should be locked up for at least a decade. De facto, I'd get out on bail, get the charges dropped to a discharge of firearm, and maybe spent a few weeks in jail or probation if it's a first/second offense. And that's IF I'm caught and the Chicago police actually investigate - basically only when it's so open and shut that not investigating would make them look like even more of a bunch of keystone cops. Basically, you have an around 9 / 10 chance of getting away with murder here. You really gotta be a complete idiot to get caught.

There was a situation where two gangs were shooting it out in the open. It was caught by cameras (they knew they're there, but they don't care. You can't miss them, they literally are on a big box that says CPD on it and has blue flashing lights on top) and the person who's supposed to be essentially the top enforcer in Chicago, the DA, said that she's not going to press charges because it was a case of "mutual combat."


Yes and no. Yes, because I think US society is way too violent, but no because that's what it's become over decades if not centuries. It's not going to change, certainly not anytime soon.

I don't know what the laws are in Texas and terms do get manipulated so I can't speak on that. Generally, if you buy a gun from a store whether hand gun or long gun there is a background check or you have to present a firearm owner ID (FOID) in order to purchase. This is not the case with private party transactions though or buying from non registered dealers. I'm sure that the kid probably had to get some kind of background check or apply for an ID card that allows him to buy a gun, especially if he bought form a gun dealer and not a private individual.

To be honest, the vast vast majority of legal gun sales from both private parties and dealers don't result in crimes. It rarely happens and when it does it makes huge news. On the other hand, the mass shootings where maybe 2, 3, 5 people die, but happen every other day, don't get talked about like a shooting with 10 victims especially if they're kids. The difference is the former stacks up way more bodies and more oftne than not it's illegally acquired guns that were used. Most people who own legal guns are responsible with them.

@Dirk diggler, I suspect that in the Texas Tribune they know what kind of gun laws they have in Texas:

texastribune.org/2021/08/16/texas-permitless-carry-gun-law/

"This doesn't apply to rifles, which do not require licenses to be carried in public."

texastribune.org/2022/05/26/gun-buying-age-texas-handguns-rifles-uvalde/

"The fact that the gunman responsible for this week's massacre in Uvalde was able to buy two AR-15s days after his 18th birthday highlights how much easier it is for Americans to purchase rifles than handguns."


By whom? By the shop assistant at the store? How?

It could've been the shop assistant, owner, whoever, it doesn't matter really who rang him up. The process wouldve been the same.


Yes, that's correct. That's totally seperate from being able to purchase a gun. The "carry" rule differs from state to state.

For example, in Illinois you wish to purchase a gun, any kind of gun, from a licensed dealer (FFL dealer), you must first pass a background check or obtain a FOID card. However, that does NOT allow you to carry that gun on your person. If you wish to do so, you need to get another license/permit called a Concealed Carry Permit.

Texas, on the other hand, while it follows the same federal law regarding purchases as Illinois, does NOT have a seperate law for carry. Thus, a person can purchase a gun, after of course passing the license/firearm ID, but then doesn't to get another permit to carry. That's all that means.


Yeah for some reason long guns i.e. shotguns and rifles are treated differently than handguns. Obtaining a handgun is much stricter in many states than a rifle or shotgun. Also in some states the age limit is higher 21 instead of 18.

No, its look like one and is big scary looking and good to make people **** bricks. What diffrence does it make? You mind jump all over the place. Brześć to nie America.


Look I don't really care. If you are unable to deal with black culture of crime or underage offeders ask Russian they will sort it out in no time. Gulags need people to work.

In my opinion handing murders would sort some issues, the other would be havey policing in gettos and zero tolerance to cime and corruption. What do I know anyway.


Insaed of Obama Care, asylum for menatly ill would be needed. As for the rest that would be family oriented culture as a solution. No perfect but better than nothing.


Those are much harder to hide and you can't just walk about with a rfile without being noticed.

@Dirk diggler

Sounds to me that the gun laws in the USA are a mess and they need to be national laws and not state laws.
Currently, you can be legal in one state and illegal if you cross the border.
Is the USA a country or a ton of independent states?

So what is this process?


So what is this law regarding purchases exactly? What do you have to do to buy a gun legally in Texas and Illinois?


The fact that you're too thick to understand what I'm writing about doesn't mean that I "mind jump all over the place". As for Brześć, it was AntV who brought it up and I only commented on what he wrote, so bugger off.

And the difference is that with 30 rounds in a single magazine you can shoot 30 people without reloading. Get it?

ALL of those clusterfuck cops on duty that day should be charged with murder.
I had a nightmare last night of those defenseless little 8-10 year old children calling 911 on their cell phones begging for help while they watched their friends being shot in the head while they waited for their turn.

All those cops are guilty as hell of murder !


The last shotgun I bought I went into a sporting store, picked out the one I wanted, handed them my drivers license, they typed my name and drivers license number into their computers website of the Firearms Bureau (I would guess) and it came back with no felony arrests or red flags....all within three minutes.

The guy took my money and walked the gun to the front door and handed it to me.
Easy peazy.
Buying a hand gun is much harder.
First you have to obtain a purchase permit from the Sheriff of your county, fill it out, give it to the store who fills their part out, who in turn runs a complete back ground check on you through the ATF (Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms) bureau.

And those guys know everything about you, trust me.
If you have no felonies, no outstanding arrest warrants, no history of mental illness, no violent arrest records INCLUDING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND RAPE then you are good to go.

Takes about two or three days to clear and then you can then go back to the store and purchase the handgun.
If you already have a concealed and carry license like I do, it is much easier.


Correct
In all hunting guns you are only allowed to have a 5 round capacity.
The guy that designed the AR-15's and 16's said that he wish he would never have.
They are strictly a weapon to kill people with. (Military)
You don't need 30 rounds to kill a deer.
One shot, one kill.
What you have in your home and on your property is no ones business.
Once you cross that line the laws SHOULD change but they don't.
No one needs 30 rounds to go to the grocery store or deer hunting.
If I were to defend myself, I would use a shotgun with 00 buckshot.
Much more lethal than an Ar-15.

You have to do two things when you purchase a firearm from a gun dealer (or any FFL) - you fill out an ATF form which asks certain questions (i.e. if you've been in a mental institute, if you've been convicted of violent felonies, etc.) and then the dealer does a background check with a database called the NICS to confirm whether you're allowed to purchase, aka whether they're legally allowed to "transfer" a firearm to you.

However, in many states this does not apply if you're buying off a private person that isn't an FFL or gun dealer. Meaning if say you and I both live in say Indiana or Wisconsin, I have a gun for sale, you want to buy it, I can sell it to you without having an FFL or doing any sort of checks, aside from technically I'm supposed to check your ID to confirm your a resident of the same state. This tends to be the case in a lot of the more conservative states whereas in other states it's more strict. Like in Illinois, if you want to buy a gun off me I first have to lookup your FOID card number to see that it's valid, which you can only get if you meet the federal and state guidelines.

At almost every gun show you'll have a group of Mexicans offering 50-100% more than the value that private sellers have for sale, especially ARs and AKs. Everyone knows where these guns would be headed once sold. Nonetheless, even though a private party can legally sell to them (after confirming their ID is from the same state i.e. Indiana), the vast majority will not because they don't want the trouble.

Most of the guns acquired in mass shootings tend to be legally sold because if the person passes all the checks like the guy in Texas, then the gun dealer can legally sell to them. These are people who buy guns with the expectation that they're going to commit a massacre and therefore don't care that the gun is going to be linked back to them since they already expected to do life in prison/die by cop.

On the other hand, the vast majority of shootings are perpetrated by people who acquired guns illegally. Those come from a variety of sources - home invasions, gun store robberies, crooked gun dealers, straw purchases, and increasingly now ghost guns.


Yeah well in that sense it's kind of like Russia as a federation. States like Chechnya are given a lot of leeway in their own laws, enforcement, etc. But yes, laws differ a lot between states here especially for things like firearms, gambling, marijuana and taxes. In general, the more conservative states are going to have stricter laws with gambling and marijuana, but more lax on firearms and lower taxes, while more liberal states tend to be lax on gambling and marijuana, but are strict with firearms and have higher taxes. The states that have the strictest gun laws actually have the most problems with murders, shootings, and crime in general.

Example - in Illinois, you can have an ounce of marijuana and I believe up to 4-5 plants for personal use and it's totally legal. There's gambling everywhere - almost every single gas station, diner, etc. has slots, joker poker, etc. machines. But gun laws are super strict, yet there's tons of crime. In Indiana/Wisconsin, two conservative states, an ounce of marijuana/4-5 plants will get you time. Gambling is restricted to certain establishments. Gun laws are lax, and there isn't nearly as much crime especially violent crime.

paid for by the government and/or in gov run asylums? I think that would fall under the definition of obamacare ;)

I noticed an amazing absence of crime at the police stations and gun stores. I wonder how they do it...Hmm...With all those evil guns around...And ammo!

Somehow 99% of mass murders occur where guns are not allowed. I wonder why...Really perplexing...

Gun store robberies are actually pretty common, after hours of course. Just a couple weeks ago a couple dudes drove a stolen car through a gun store in Melrose Park, ran in, grabbed a bunch of hand guns and were out within a minute or so. No suspects in custody.

People who work in gun stores steal, too. Different category...

I got so sick of school massacres that I sent this letter to the Palatine PD:

Date: 5-31-2022
To: Dave Daigle - Palatine Police Chief
Subject: School safety

Sir,

Based on the information I was able to get from the Palatine PD and other sources, it is clear that the system is broken and unable to prevent students from bringing guns into schools.

I understand that police departments are doing their very best and this letter is in no way an attempt to be critical of the Palatine SROs. The reason why I decided to address you is that school safety is primarily a matter of law enforcement - with mental health and bad parenting, while important long term, as secondary and beyond your control.

My opinions are based on the fact that students and their bags are not searched as they walk into the building. As a test, if 10 students tried to bring guns into either Palatine high school, none of them would be stopped. Please let me know if your statistical data is different.

At the same time, all 10 such attempts to bring guns into courthouses, county or federal, would be detected, leading to a 10 to 0 score in their favor.

Hence, my question: In your opinion, is there any practical way to improve that school score of 0 and make it at least 8 or 9, if not a perfect 10, without violating the US and the Illinois constitutions? If you choose to respond, please disregard budgetary concerns and parents' opposition.

Your advice would be greatly appreciated.

Quoting dailymail.com...

Uvalde cops DID know kids were alive in classroom with gunman: Damning footage captures child victim saying they had been shot and shooter had entered class - when police chief insisted the kids were dead

A country that refuses to protect its kids is not worth protecting.

I always hated leftists. Now they told me why I was right.

The POS-in-chief just told me that he wants more dead kids. He said: "I am against hardening schools". Now, why would this senile mother fvcker say something so incredibly stupid and insensitive even before the Texas 21 are buried? Good question, Novichock.

The answer: He slipped. A verbal wet fart he couldn't control.
Leftists know that the only way to get rid of the 2A and the "evil" guns is by getting the American mothers to join their ranks. "To protect our kids", of course.

That's the plan. Hardening schools is an obstacle to that plan because it would work.
Hence, no, we don't want to protect our kids. We want them dead and use them to advance the case against the 2nd Amendment. The more gut-wrenching the story - like the one from Texas - the better.

Just give a few more hours. His handlers will walk it back just like everything else he says. At this point in time who can take anything this idiot says seriously?

Did you hear him trying to explain about 9mm ammo? LOL


Only a few more moths and we can vote most of this trash out!

Can't wait to see their faces when the revolution is televised.