USA News and Poland - Part 6

You're referring to the kapos, I take it.

And various Gestapo agents and lowlifes who profitted from other people's misery. Jakub Lejkin, for example, the chief of the Jewish Ghetto Police in Warsaw - he have sent his own family to the Umschlagplatz from where they were sent to Treblinka. Abraham Gancwajch who established organizations Żagiew and Group 13 whose goal was to infiltrate Jewish and Polish resistance, two of its members - Leon Skosowski and Adam Żurawin managed to intercept false passports that were to be given to the Jews so they could escape from the occupied Poland; they snitched to the Gestapo and lured around 2500 Jews, they vast majority of whom were later killed. Szema Grajer was a pimp in the Lublin ghetto, very fond of his German clientele. There was also Anatol Chari, a member of the Jewish Ghetto Police in Łódź, responsible for distributing food - in his own biography he said that he was sometimes depraving women from food in the ghetto in order to have sex with them.

The Jewish resistance organisations in the ghettoes had plenty of trouble with them. Polish resistance had that trouble with them too, to some degree.

So not only the kapos.

Every orchard has its share of rotten apples.
Yet that's never a justifiable reason for destroying the entire crop!

True.

No, the reason was different in most cases - they wanted to survive the Holocaust. They believed that by betraying their own nation and helping Germans they will be spared. Nobody knows, even you, how you would behave in such a situation. If a mafia hitman put a gun to your head today and demanded that you snitch on your neighbour or he shoots if you don`t - are you sure you would choose death for yourself and not the neighbour????

So, you are prepared to accept that on the Jewish side but not in the Polish side?


Pawian speaks the truth Lyzko,you just need to learn what that is......

@pawian

When someone steals food and gives it back only if a woman agrees to have sex with him, it has nothing to do with being spared by the Germans. If I was in a situation of Chari, when I have power over distributing food, I would possibly try to steal something to myself, but I wouldn't use it to bargain with women.

If I was in a situation of Skosowski when he was in possession of fake passports, knowing that he's the only one to know about it (well, and Żurawin), I would not run to Gestapo headquarters, as I would know what's going to happen. Anyway, I'd not join Żagiew nor Group 13.

If I was in a situation of Lejkin, and I wanted my family to survive, I would not send them to Umschlagplatz, as that was a death sentence. By doing that he proved to be an *******, and his execution carried by the Jewish resistance member was well deserved.

If I was in a situation of Grajer... well, I wouldn't be in a situation of Grajer, because I wouldn't be a pimp in the first place. He was a lowlife before the war already.

I think I know quite well what I would do in certain situations. I'd rather have a shorter life, but the one that allows me to look in the mirror without seeing a guy whose actions led to the murder of hundreds or thousands of people. As a matter of fact, I'd possibly assume that joining the resistance, and fighting against the Germans together with other resistance organisations, would increase my chance of survival. There is no way that I would do everything just to remain alive, there are lines I'd not cross - traitors like Gancwajch, Spira or Szeryński not only crossed these lines but went far beyond; they didn't just want to survive, they also wanted to exchange people's lives to enhance the quality of their own lives.

Yes, you tried to imagine yourself in the shoes of the infamous guys whose names we know today. How about hundreds of anonymous helpers?? That is why I wrote:

No, the reason was different in most cases.


That`s what we can both say in front of a monitor in our cosy houses. And I suppose 90% of others agree and share the same belief.

But you don`t know how you would really behave in the conditions of the cruel war and its horrible challenges and choices between death and life.

Whom I provided as examples and you said "no, they just tried to survive".

As I said, there were cases of the Jews who..., which you confronted with "no" followed by an info about "most of cases". I nowhere said that the names I mentioned were "most of cases".


My comment was not about some random guy from the Jewish Police, but as I said in my post - even if I had no moral compass (which I happily do have), I'd see more likehood in survival by siding with the resistance, not with the Germans. Still, you addressed the post that consists of very specific names, not anonymous policemen (who, by the way, were described by Emanuel Ringelblum as very enthusiastic in bringing demise on their own people).


And what a lot of people would put into practice and what a lot of people actually did. There are people who understand very well, that death is inevitable - it will occur anyway, and they'd rather not fill it with self-contempt. Turning into a traitor and mass murderer who sends innocent to the certain death for the amusement of his enemies, hoping to spend the rest of the miserable life in neverending regret, that's definitely avoidable.


I can easily tell how I would not behave and which line I would not cross. Would I be willing to do some unethical things? Absolutely. Does it mean that I am capable of everything? No.

What you seem to not understand here is that people are not necessarily willing to do everything just to make their lives longer. Otherwise, nobody would be smoking cigarettes, nobody would drink alcohol, every guy would go to the doctor regularly for prostate exams and everybody would eat only healthy food. Normally people seem to prefer enjoy their lives, not to torment themselves as long as they breathe.

Please cut down on excessive quotes

Excellent answer. I will refer to it in detail later on coz now I am in fun mood. Be patient, I`ll be back. :):)

@pawian

No problem :)

This is one of those moments when I like an iron fist as long as it is attached to a body with brain...

Former University of Kentucky swimmer shares 'extreme discomfort' at having to change alongside Lia Thomas because of her 'different parts' and blasts NCAA bosses for letting the trans athlete compete

In a new interview, swimmer Riley Gaines described her 'extreme discomfort' in being forced to share a locker room with transgender swimmer Lia Thomas

I would like to know what Hitler or Stalin would do to the ass*hole that would allow men into girls' locker room and later to compete with them. Me thinks that a quick excecution on TV would solve this complex dillemma in less than 60 seconds.

Who wants to bet that Nancy Pelosi backs down from her trip to Taiwan? The commie chinks say they will use military force. Lets see Biden screw it up like Afghanistan.

• 
  theyaresoweird.jp.jpg
  

If they pressure Pelosi to back down, they will invite greater Chinese threats and pressure in the future and increase the odds of a crisis again down the road.

However, if they support her going, they risk escalating tensions in the Taiwan Straits.
What would you do if your daughter was in the Navy and on one of our warships in the Straights of Twain ?
On the flip side they may just shoot down Pelosi's plane upon arrival.

...by accident. Just as we shot down that Iranian plane. Oops, sorry...
Why this useless bi*tch wants to go there other than to pis*s off Xi is still a mystery.

Its the risk you take when you join the military, right? Perhaps, not in Bidens "woke" army.


It will be an foreign policy blunder of epic proportion dwarfing Afghanistan.

Like Barak Obozo said " Dont underestimate the ability of Joe to Phuck things up".

NK is threatening of using nukes again.........

The Biden Admin hasnt a clue what to do about anything!

What other legacy does she have besides tearing up Trumps State of the Union Speech and rotating her dentures while on camera ?
This way she will go down in the history books for starting the first nuclear war in history.

...or at least bring us close to it.

I lost all respect for these almost iconic orgs like DoJ and the FBI after their non-reaction to Dems in 2017 and now after the Roe decision and the way they treat Trump.

And those Jan6 "hearings". Soviet show trials were more fair and balanced. But the stupid women and kneegros will still vote for these American fascists anyway.

@Milo, the whole point is that NEITHER side was entirely blameless!
For every Socha, a drunken hoodlum who eventually found it in his conscious to do the Christian thing, the noble, truly seflless likes of a Witold Pilecki, Karol Wojtyla or above all, Jan Karski (whose statue adorns the entrance to the Consulate General of Poland in Manhattan), there were unfortunately the Dmowskis and the Moscickis out there who fomented anti-Jewish hatred.

What you and several others here on PF continually fail to recognize is that people are never only black or white; there are gray areas in between and each one of us is equally capable of heinous acts under the right circumstances.

Can you guys get that sh*it out of here? None of this is related to the US.

And what then would you propose, may one be so bold as to ask?
My apologies if the content is so bothersome to you, hits home so badly, that you feel the need to ignore it by simply getting rid of it.

Get this sh*it into the PF garbage can aka Random. The US is the most pro-Jew place on earth.

Yes, nasty nationalists who contributed to the murder of the first Polish President, only because he was elected with the support of Polish Jewish votes.

Biden admin quietly approves construction of U.S.-Mexico border wall
foxnews.com/politics/biden-admin-quietly-approves-construction-us-mexico-border-wall-near-yuma-arizona

democrats.i mean ...

Even the Democrats are tired of their kids dying from the drugs being smuggled across our open border.
More have died from these drugs than died from Covid.
The Democrat NIMBY are tired of the Latino gangs popping up in their schools and neighborhoods.
They are tired of these deceased people being bussed and flown into their towns to be relocated.
They are tired of the crime rate sky rocketing.
They have finally had to admit that nasty tweeting Trump was right and they were wrong.
Now with the "Big Man" being busted, no one much listens to the lying bastard anymore.
America is missing Trump horribly and wish he was back.

i dont know.people are strange those days. i wont be even surprised if Americans elect hunter biden as next president anymore.
i mean,how people like kamala or nancy get into so hight positions? the must be something wrong with democracy nowdays.
in theory,democracy mechanism should promote clever and decent people. one could assume that people in democracy chose the best from among them.
but western world full of idiot leaders. i think,random bum from the street would do better job than biden

Simple. Governments everywhere attract the least productive power-craving parasites. No other combination of traits is worse.
The difference between the PF Americans and the naive Euros is that we know it and say it. They are either stupid or scared so they stay silents on the subject and defend their oppressors

Just another case of Stockholm syndrome...

Bureaucrats are no more than glorified cogs in a much larger wheel!
However, certain folks are more cut out for private sector, others for public sector jobs.

Everyone needs to eat, be it the farmer, the lawyer, the teacher, the plant manager or the desk jockey aka paper pusher, right?

As I've said before and I see I'll have to say again, you Reps sure love to mess up, but not to clean up.

Was this your Ph.D. thesis? Can you send me the abridged version?

twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1551984522685829120
am gregy, my pronouns are he hes, am a man sitting in chair and am not wearing any shirt
and am wondering wtf is happening here