USA News and Poland - part 14

@Bobko
I guess Europe also suffers from TDS, tallest dwarf syndrome.

Europe enforces its standards if you want to trade improve your standards.

Fvck your standards. The US should stop trading with you and reduce trade defiict to zero.

I love Trump.

Canada CAVES to Trump, Agrees to DROP ALL Tariffs to ZERO!!

So tariffs work, don't they, Euroholes...

You, morons, are next...

Poles don't hate the US and everyone can comment on what is going on wherever. Just like you and your American buddies can express your concerns about "the islamisation" of Europe even though, unlike the tariffs, it doesn't really affect you. So, do you hate Europe with a passion? 🤔

Also, I have a family in the US and that's just one of the reasons why I care about what happens to/in that country. 🤨


The thing is, they're not just "framed" - it is about health and quality.

There's this interesting TV show/documentary I really like watching when I have time: "Jestem z Polski" ("I'm from Poland") on TVN Style. In these TV series Poles living abroad show what the life looks like in other countries. Recently there was an episode about the US - a Polish female pilot (married to a Polish pilot also) was showing what her life looks like in Arizona. She mentioned that the quality of food in supermarkets in the US is lower than in Poland and the EU, because the EU has higher quality standards and better regulations than the US. That's why she takes her family (they have a little boy) to an organic farm where you can gather the vegetables yourself. She grew up in the Polish countryside and, trust me, anyone who grew up in the Polish countryside knows what quality farm produce tastes like.


LOL

No wonder you have so many morbidly obese people in the US. Sorry, but you can thank your low standards for this.

From what I've managed to gather the food in the US is more processed and sugary than in Europe. I've often read comments by Europeans who complained that they gained weight when they visited the US even though they ate in the same way as in Europe.

This is her (and info about this episode, including the healthy food issue), she grew up in a small village called Sulisław :):

tvnstyle.pl/jestem-z-polski-tak-zyje-sie-na-dzikim-zachodzie-natalia-zabierze-was-do-slonecznej-arizony-st7853341

But they do, overwhelmingly, by the landslide; you have no idea what you are talking about, flapping your mouth about the unfairness of the tariffs, like tariffs were deciding the fair trade alone. Numerous factors decide fairness. I will not involve myself in a prolonged discussion with you, even the short one, i.e., the waste of time. However, if you are open to enlightenment, read Bobko's post # 603, one of the best explanations of trade fairness; brilliant analyses. You get hung up on tariffs and miss myriad of of manipulations that Europe is using to make trade adventetioue to Europe only. READ POST #603

I am keenly aware of it; contrary to your assumption, Poles have positive opinions of Americans, I was talking of the Poles on PF
As far as Europeans are concerned, I dislike French; I tolerate the rest, depending on the person.

I personally haven't commented about fairness or unfairness of the tariffs so far.


I did and my post #608 was my response to his comment. Did you read it? Did you comprehend it? Do you realise why are Americans so much fatter than Europeans? Do you think we want to be as fat as Americans? Of course we don't want to. 🤨

I don't want to eat genetically modified products, hormone treated meat or your oversweet sweets. If you don't mind eating those yourself then stuff yourself with it to your heart's (dis)content, but leave us be.


Which ones?

We are aware of it. We have experienced your standards before. As soon as we improved, you imposed new ones.

I apologize for addressing Paulina's post to you; it was intended for Barney. Actually, I have checked it. The post was left without address. Some pig constantly removes
quotations from my posts, so I withdraw my apologies.The pig created the confusion:::)))

quote=Paulina]Which ones?[/quote]
Only a few get involved in the discussion, take your pick.

Happy Liberation Day!

Its not going to take long before they all capitulate to Trump:)

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Nothing to do with standards. Everything to do with if one is a pig.

What are you talking about? Are the demanded standards for US products to be sold in the EU higher than for EU products sold in the EU? If they aren't then you have nothing to complain about.


As I already explained earlier, it has a lot to do with standards. There are food addicts in every country, but I am not aware of any country where the obesity would be as big of a problem as in the US. Of course, the quality of the food isn't the only issue here, but also the size of food portions, free refills and lifestyle (driving cars to move around, no walking). I remember my cousin telling us when they were visiting Poland when he was younger that his mother would drive him and his friends every time they wanted to go to the cinema. For me at that time it was weird, but he explained it was due to big distances in the US (and no public transport, I guess?).

As for food I remember reading a comment by an European woman who wrote that while she was in the US she not only gained weight, but she felt unhealthy, as if the food was making her feel ill. 🤔

You can't fix this problem in the US if you're not aware of it or if you're in a denial and you blame it on just people being "pigs". The real "pigs", it seems, are your food industry and your consecutive governments who, judging by a documentary I've seen, not only didn't do anything about this problem, but they were helping the food industry to keep poisoning people with crappy food.

I'm not making this up. All you need is to read food labels (btw, usually the longer the list of ingredients the more unhealthy the food is).

Here's a video comparing food labels of the same brands of American products in the US and the UK - it's by no random person, but a guy who was a doctor for American Olympic team:



A quote from the video about American food companies:

"They sell better, safer products overseas while making inferior versions right here in America feeding it to Americans."

Your companies can do that in the US, because they're allowed to do that - due to lack of regulations.

Btw, basically every time I see a video of an American guy who moved to Poland they point out that food tastes better in Poland than in the US. They even say that it tastes better in American fast food chains in Poland than in the US o_O So, it clearly must have something to do with the quality of the ingredients.

What's wrong with that? Perhaps the US should get it's act together and ban the food/dye additives they use that are known carcinogens. In addition, who wants to eat chicken that's been washed in chlorine or meat pumped full of hormones?


Is this something new? Link please.

It's gonna take a long time to explain every item I listed... but let's look at two of them together. Namely - hormone treated beef, and chlorine-washed chicken.

In the United States, cattle are treated with 6 approved hormones that are either natural or synthetic. These are estradiol, progesterone, testosterone, zeranol, trenbolone acetate, melengestrol acetate. The logic behind this is obviously to promote muscle growth, and consequently time to market.

There are largely two American agencies involved in regulating this - the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the US Department of Agriculture (USDA). They rigorously test these hormones, and establish so called Maximum Residue Levels (MRLs). These MRLs are set much, much below toxic thresholds. As such, this beef is declared safe for human consumption.

Outside the US, the is also the FAO/WHO - which establishes international health standards for safe residue levels, so that countries may trade with each other.

Despite all this, in 1989 the EU ban hormone treated beef from the US. These US challenged this at the World Trade Organization, and in 1998 the WTO ruled in America's favor. The WTO cited two reasons for its decision. First, that it was not based on a scientific risk assessment. Second, it violated a sanitary and phytosanitary agreement, which requires evidence based justification for blocking imports.

The EU did not lift the ban, in any case. It simply changed its tune, and cited a "precautionary principle", as well as AGAIN introducing new health risk assessments. Exasperated - the US applied retaliatory tariffs on European cheese, wine, etc.

Now the chlorine washed chicken. In US poultry plants - chicken carcasses are washed with chlorine treated solution. This is done to kill pathogens like Salmonella and Listeria. The USDA has approved this as part of the Pathogen Reduction Treatment. It has been in use in the United States for decades, without ANY PUBLIC HEALTH INCIDENTS. Literally decades to prove that it's safe.

Again, the European Food Safety Authority was not able to demonstrate that chlorinated chicken poses a health risk. Instead, it again cited precautionary measures and other more philosophical ones - but without changing its policy.

This is fundamentally unscientific. Through its "precautionary principle", Europe claims that "absence of proof of harm is not proof of safety". This flips the burden of proof, and allows these egregious bans even in the absence of any scientific consensus.

So it's not fair, it's not scientific, and it has nothing to do with health. It has everything to do with protecting small European food operations from competing with large and industrial scale American food enterprises.

Haha lol

I remember watching a documentary about the American food industry. It's f*cking evil, so, please, spare me this lol:

theguardian.com/society/2003/apr/21/usnews.food

"The industry does not accept the WHO report's
conclusion that sweetened soft drinks contribute to the obesity pandemic."

"It claims that the review by international experts which decided on the 10% limit is scientifically flawed"

And behold:

"The sugar industry in the US is threatening to bring the World Health Organisation to its knees by demanding that Congress end its funding unless the WHO scraps guidelines on healthy eating, due to be published on Wednesday."

"US government rejects WHO's attempts
to improve diet:":

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC318478/

"The US government has rejected a link between junk food and obesity in a confidential letter to the director general of the World Health Organization, Dr Lee Jong-wook."

Can you f*cking imagine this??? :D

npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074/50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat

And finally:

cpreview.org/articles/2024/6/sugarcoating-the-truth-the-role-of-lobbying-in-americas-obesity-epidemic

Sorry, Bobko, but do you think there are no "industrial scale food enterprises" in the EU? lol They also have to comply with EU's food regulations. So all American companies have to do is to adapt to the market they want to sell to (and there are American companies which are doing exactly that). Have you bothered to watch that video I posted in my #617 comment?


Again - watch that video I posted. Please :)))


Um, yes, because Americans are such "healthy" people and the food tastes "great" over there :)))

Listen, I have no idea what European food producers use to wash their chickens, but clearly people in Europe aren't dying from eating chickens, so they must be doing something right lol So, if Americans want to sell their chickens to the EU why don't they simply wash their chickens in whatever Europeans are washing them? What's the big deal?

By philosophical I assume you mean animal welfare regulations. If anything I think these regulations dont go far enough.

Chlorinated chicken is necessary in the US because of the lax animal welfare standards, If the chickens were raised in conditions that negated washing away the "filth" then there wouldnt be a problem. Pumping animals with growth enhancers is quite simply barbaric.

This free market stuff is simply a rush to the bottom for a quick buck.

Europe has a so-called "farm-to-fork" approach. Europe's methods are procedure based, while American ones are more interventionist. Barney has it broadly right.

So in Europe, it starts at the farm level, and is focused on preventing contamination rather than dealing with bacteria at the end. The processing plants are designed in a way to prevent contamination. And when the chicken carcasses are finally washed: cold water, steam, and air drying is used instead of chlorine baths.


For the same reason you don't rebuild your house to win the neighborhood bake sale.

The US poultry industry is built around high volumes and fast turnarounds - with chlorine or other anti microbials as a cheap and effective final safeguard. Attempting to come into compliance with European standards, would essentially mean a wholesale rewriting of protocols throughout the entire supply chain - from farm to slaughterhouse.

This would require absolutely massive capital investment, and would definitely result in slower processing times. Smaller throughput = smaller margins.

The Europeans don't import that much poultry (in comparison to the home markets of American producers), so all this means that the return on investment would be minimal. Why:

1) The costs to adapt are incredibly high
2) The potential prize is rather small
3) The political risk is non-trivial. That is, Europeans could again move the goal posts.

It's not just about chicken - the problem is more "global". It's about setting fair and transparent rules for trade that everybody can understand and abide by. There are already things in place - the codex standards, WTO sanitary norms, FAO/WHO.

However - the Europeans insist on being "world leaders" in process innovation and environmental responsibility. We are to thank them for worrying about the health of the rest of us, while our governments are content to make us fat and ill.


Yes.

Why is it cruel to administer growth hormones to a cow?

Not quite cruelty related - but what is the problem with genetically modified corn or wheat? Corn and wheat are both quite literally the most genetically modified products in human history. Wild corn and wild wheat were inedible. People have been playing with wheat genes for 5,000+ years. How does making wheat more pesticide resistant make it toxic to your body?

Not mentioned throughout - is that if everybody lived as Europeans want us to live - the world would starve to death.

Hormones mean more meat and faster.

Chlorine means more chicken and faster.

Pesticide resistant crops means not losing up to 50-80% of a crop due to pests, fungal diseases, and weeds.

Using synthetic flavorings and dyes means preserving more of the land and sea based flora and fauna.

This world leadership in innovation and standard setting could quite literally kill the world if it adapted to them.

@Bobko, nobody is telling the rest of the world how to live, but if you want to sell on our market then you have to adapt to our regulations. Simple. 🤷


Then don't sell chickens to the EU, if you don't want to adapt, but somewhere else. Problem solved.


And all that focus on high volumes and being cheap and profit-obsessed clearly affects the quality and taste of food in the US and even the health of its citizens.


pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18989835/


Firstly, considering that the US governments have been putting the interests of American food industry over the health of their own people (and people in general) - I don't trust anything that is coming out from American governmental agencies in this regard.

Secondly, I don't know if you're aware, but we are surrounded by stuff that affect hormonal balance in our bodies. Certain stuff in cosmetics like parabens, for example. That's why I avoid such cosmetics even though they're cheaper. Certain stuff in plastic bottles. In food packaging. In pesticides. Stuff that will make people infertile, for example. So, even if the amount of hormones in American meat isn't that big - if you add all that up - it cumulates in your body and causes hormonal chaos. So, if it's possible to eliminate this crap altogether then it's better to do so, obviously.

And Bobko, again, have you watched that video I posted? 🙄

I wonder about Musk.....I observe the happenings on X....and I read that there develop problems between him and Trump.....not so close friends anymore!

These "misgivings" could be the first signs that Trump is playing it wrong....

"As Biotech Crops Lose Their Power, Scientists Push For New Restrictions":

npr.org/2020/10/29/927111009/as-biotech-crops-lose-their-power-scientists-push-for-new-restrictions

"In the case of some Bt crops, such as corn hybrids with genes targeting the corn rootworm, scientists have urged the EPA to require that farmers to devote at least half of their fields to non-Bt corn. The companies balked at that, since it would have limited sales of their products. They convinced the EPA that such large refuges weren't necessary.

The warnings, however, turned out to be well-founded. Over the past decade, insects like the corn rootworm, the cotton bollworm, and the Western bean cutworm have become resistant to one Bt gene after the other."


What are you talking about? Most basic natural flavourings and dyes have been used for centuries and can be grown by humans - carrots, beetroots, etc.

I will leave the rest of that to Paulina but why not eat less colourfull food?

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@Lenka, that's a solution too, good point :)))

I have quite a philosophical view on this. I dont oppose the eating of meat but do object to industrialisation of farming both arable and pastoral. I am aware of the contradiction in that a certain amount of industrialisation is necessary to feed people at scale. Pumping hormones into animals to stimulate growth is unnatural and is cruel because the unnecessary stress this places on the animal. My philosophical objection is treating animals like commodities. The respect shown to animals in the past even by butchers is no longer present, people no longer live close to farm animals and the bottom line is now king.

Genetic modification is not a shortcut in plant evolution it endangers the wider environment with the potential dangers of genetic leakage. The patenting of GMOs is again an example of rapacious practices where traditional methods produced many varieties of cereal but some large company decides they own the result with a minor tweak. Its a bit like Israel destroying the traditional water system in Palestine because the Romans forgot to apply for planning permission.

Edit

And of course the company can sell more pesticides.

Faster meat growth is cruel and I would say immoral.

I dont agree that we should remove standards for a few more euros.

Forgot to add, the bottom line is that each country/trading block has standards some better than others but you need to meet the minimum if you want to trade. If the standards change you have to adapt to those changes.

lol.

Why do you think I know so much about American poultry?

Russia was for a long time the largest market for American poultry exporters.

When they couldn't get it into Europe - they sold it to us instead.

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Cause then you can use more pesticide on the wheat, do you think the pesticide evaporates or has left no mark on the wheat? It will poison any human that eats it. You become what you eat

It's basically Chairman Mouth's Great Leap Backwards.