USA News and Poland - part 19

o.k, how about the banking families (who aren't on the rich lists) vs the rest of us?

@amiga500

Not even them. Sure, there are some real bastards among them and the billionaire class, but banks have been and remain vital to economic development and the good of commoners.

However, we do need to find a way that their, as well as everyone else's, money doesn't reach the hands of elected officials in any way, shape, or form.

Perhaps you will change your mind when billionaires, through AI, will manage who gets a job and who gets their virtual money or not.

@Tlum

Perhaps, but as of right now it just seems this is grasping for a bogeyman without considering all the facts. It's the same brand of thinking that leads to "all Palestinians are Hamas animals, therefore they need to be liquidated""

They manage the news and mainstream narrative and count on our stupidity. You're waiting for them to tell you the twisted facts.. not the way to go. You need to be more proactive in your research.

@Tlum

How do you know how proactive I am in my research? This is my point: you are making conclusive determinations without either knowing or including all the facts. You are making oxymoronic conclusive assumptions.

Because I can tell you still consider a lot of debunked "conspiracy theories" as just "conspiracy theories," not facts. If you had done your research, you'd have never used the words "bogeyman" or "conspiracy theorist" again.

@Tlum
What conspiracy theories are you talking about? You sure you aren't confusing me with someone else?


You shouldn't be so confident in your clairvoyance.

Many of them, don't have time to describe it here; the recent big one was Convid.

But when did I, AntV, attack and dismiss any conspiracy theory?

You bringing up Covid as an example makes it apparent you are confusing me with someone else.

I don't know what you think about Convid or Kirk's assassination, but from my experience, the majority of Americans (see Joke or PAK) learn their "facts" from Fox or CNN, which intentionally miss the truth in many cases. My point was about your reference to the word "bogeyman," which is a classic keyword used by the propaganda machine to attack one's character and twist facts.

I stand by my use of the term, because when I hear the Billionaire class arguments those arguments are bogeyman arguments.

Your original argument sounded like it. The if we can only get rid of the billionaires, us commoners will be better served is classic bogeyman.

The problem with this argument is it creates a caste system where everyone is defined by their caste. It's an effront to human nature and the divine design. To say Billionaire=devil worshiping pedophile is to deny free will and everyone's ability to choose good or evil.

It also neglects the fact that Billionaires produce a massive amount of benefit to us commoners-this isn't an opinion but fact. We benefit from the product and services these billionaires make and sell, we benefit through decent remuneration, etc.

And, yes, we also bear the brunt of the bad-yes, even evil-that some perpetrate.

Taking away the Billionaires won't solve all our problems-might even create more problems. Besides, history continually teaches that if it's not billionaires causing problems it'll be someone else.

We'll always have the problem of evil, even if there are no billionaires. How many billionaires ran communist countries?

In other words, your original argument is too narrow and misrepresents reality. Billionaires have the capacity for good and bad just like everyone else. The real argument, IMO, is how do we best mitigate the bad-realizing bad things are perpetrated by a much wider group of actors than just Billionaires.

So you support billionaires and don't see a problem with them managing people and entire countries. But when you consider human nature, you should also recognize what follows: the pursuit of power, and ultimately, the desire to become godlike.

To reach that level, they need people who obey. Those who refuse would be pushed out of the system (most likely created by AI and the programmable "money"). If someone is comfortable living in that role, that is their choice-but there will always be others who refuse to submit to it.

@Tlum

I neither support or don't support them. It would depend on the individual billionaire/rich guy.

Of course, human nature is fallen and has the capacity for what you mention. Hence, my reference to evil always present and the need to mitigate it.

My point is that being a billionaire/rich guy doesn't necessitate one being involved in evil. In other words, you are misidentifying the problem you want solve, which is a problem I want solved,as well. We want the interest of the common good to be served. I'm saying identifying the billionaires as the problem is wrong-some are part of the problem as well as others who are not billionaires/super rich guys...it's more complex.

A billionaire will always be the weakest link in any movement aimed at benefiting ordinary people. They have the most to lose if things go wrong, and their interests are shaped by preserving wealth and power. They are the weakest link.

Research the Polish Solidarity movement: introducing a powerful elite figure into its leadership (they tried hard) could have risked turning that person into a Trojan horse, undermining the movement from within.

So what will you think when it does affect you? Still going to cheer him on? Does it not bother you that when he was elected he lied when he said " no more foreign wars" and went ahead and started them? That he said he was going to reduce US debt with tariff revenues ( despite those tariffs being illegal ) and he's increased it by over $1 trillion since October? What's he going to lie about next?

This war is affecting global energy prices everywhere and we are seeing the knock-on effects of those in every country due to increased transport costs. I looked at flight prices the other day for an October break and I've had to rule it out because the prices are insane. Our energy prices are about to skyrocket too. You're ok though so it doesn't matter!


What solid evidence is there that Iran will soon have nukes because I can't find any at all? I hate to repeat myself but you do realise that Netanyahu has been saying that Iran has been on the verge of having nuclear weapons for the last 33 years. He wanted this war and Trump obliged. Besides which, Trump said that Iran's nuclear facility sites were obliterated last June after his bombing campaign, so was he lying about that too? How much can we trust to US intelligence?

I could also argue who is the US to say which countries should and shouldn't have nuclear weapons?

Israel and Trump chose to start this war and it's coming back to bite them. In the meantime, everyone else suffers for this epic mistake.

Also, what has been achieved so far? The regime certainly hasn't been deposed and neither will it be.


The US previously said that Iraq had WMDs or have you forgotten that.

Do I trust Trump's judgment? On the basis of what he's done so far, that's a resounding no.


I guess that's one way to detract from cms drawing attention to your failed predictions!!

@Tlum
You know as much about where I get my new as you know about what my favorite wine is.

All the whining about billionaires and millionaires usually comes from jealousy. Stop whining and be creative with your live and create wealth for your families. Worker bee's only produce for so long before they die. All the worker bee's on PF are usually democrats, socialists or both. They all expect the wealthy to pay for them not being wealthy. Even if there were a flat tax on everyone, and all the write offs were gone, that same group of people would whine and complain that the wealthy should still pay more instead of them actually doing more to earn more.

Bankers, particularly banking families are a different breed. They should be shot. They are scum feeding off of everyone.

Billionaires are too influencial in a lot of ways to be left alone. They need to be watched by the public akin to scrutiny the public figures and politicians are under.
In my opinion it should be more complex and systematic scrutiny.
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Does any human need a billion? isn't 100 million far more than enough for someone? If the odd three or four exist, that's very different to hundreds.


The argument isn't about the existence of a small number of billionaires; it's more about the wealth gap and the huge numbers who are getting poorer.

Few of the tech billionaires are living lives that I envy - they seem at odds with the world, paranoid about security, dysfunctional relations with their wives and kids, and zero empathy with their employees or customers.

Maybe 50 years ago billionaires made it by building factories and infrastructure. These days it seems mainly by creating rent seeking monopolies and harmful addictive products. They have spent the last 2 years toadying up to Golden Cow so that he preserves their monopolies and doesn't take any of their precious shiny gold.

And it's nuts to think you can make it in America by just hard work and creativity - the system has long been rigged. In fact I reckon you have more chance in Poland of a meritocratic outcome.

What? You don't want to spend hours every day gulping down supplements to improve your 'bio markers'?

You don't want blood infusions from your son?

You don't want pay 20 or more random baby mamas to raise your hellspawn?

You don't want to fly to pedophile island, then try to treat your wife for an STD without her finding out you infected her?

What's wrong with you?

I read once that man like having power to use it while women want power to be able to protect themselves from others' power.
It checks out in my case. The reason I would like to have lots of money is to be secure.
It does scare me that realistically speaking if e.g. Musk wanted to he could ruin my life with his money.
Other than that I think lower middle is my sweet spot.

There speaks a true Socialist!How well did Socialism work in Poland?


Really?I can find plenty that shows that they were getting bloody close.....until Trump stepped in....


Are you becoming anti semitic now?

@Lenka

Your post makes no sense at all!

Clearly you havent tried, or tried and failed. Hard work, belief in yourself, creativity, and a little bit of good timing are the makings of success stories.

You think its easier to become a millionaire in Poland than the US? Thats hilarious. The millionaires here are workaholics just like those in the US, or the were able to capitalize on the fall of communism 30 years ago.

If people want to be angry, be angry with banks who do nothing but use your money to make more money off of other people. Be mad at credit card companies who charge outrageous fee's. Be mad at the governments that allow it to happen. Be mad at the governments who tax the money you make, tax the house you paid for out of the money you make, tax the food you buy to cook in the house that is taxed, from the money you make that is taxed. Then be mad at the taxes you pay for the roads, and the fee's for licenses to drive on the roads you are paying for with your taxes.

The problem is not billionaires or millionaires who take advantage of the systems in place, the problem is government that creates the system.

Sometimes - but in the US the most common route is that your parents were millionaires (35 percent of all cases) the second route is appreciation of your house value (30 percent of cases) and most of the rest is operating in a rigged market (dentists, doctors, lawyers and of course bankers).

The number of genuine business builders is less than 10% of all US millionaires.

In Poland I would guess it's 80 percent of millionaires who built their own business - often with some 1990s cutting of corners but mostly through hard work and risk taking.

@cms neuf
Where you are getting your statistics from must be a school operated by high school dropouts. Almost all millionaires are self made. Most, come from poor families. Keep making $hit up though if it helps you cope.

Socialism in Poland was manufactured in Russia and was built according to their plan. It was not "Polish" socialism. There are different types of socialism, and the Russian one is very primitive. How well does socialism work in Sweden?

Only low-IQ morons don't see the pattern.

Trump's 1st term - Convid
Trump's 2nd term - Iran war

The great American traitor put the final two nails in the coffin.

Both were manufactured events designed to wipe out the remaining wealth of the middle and lower classes. After that, the final AI-prison plan will be implemented.

What a difference 14 months make! hahahahah!



if only some BLM trannie on fentanyl had put Joker into a coma..

Don't confuse socialism with the welfare state.