75 Years of Israel and the War

Few things are more disgusting than the BBC.

Corbyn is more disgusting than the BBC. What a slime...

youtube.com/watch?v=0OJCbL_3RDQ

dat all i have to say further on this thread/

Good news that a truce is in sight between Hamas and Israel.

Is it?

It's said to be close. Qatar is mediating. It would mean the release of women and children held by Hamas. Please God it happens.

...so that Hamas can regroup and do 10/7 again...Fvcking brilliant.

I wonder why the US didn't want a truce with Japan and Germany. And then why they did Nuremberg...Hmm...

The stupidest thing Euros and Israel did was to abolish the death penalty. Now they they will be stuck holding thousands of human garbage to be exchanged later after Hamas kidnaps more of them just for that purpose.

BTW, that pos Cobryn is a copy of you, PF Euros. The scum will just not say that Hamas are terrorists. Just like the leftist BBC that makes Pravda look good. To the BBC, throat slashers are "militants".

So I will give you, Euro weasels, one more chance to say what Israel should do in response to 10/7.

Hey, Barney, are you up?

This is the most important thing. The first step in moving forward.

I'll bite.

Israel should retreat to 1967 borders, or face eventual extinction as a Jewish State.

This may seem counter-intuitive, when discussing the most well-armed, wealthy, and technological state in the entire Middle East - but it's the truth. This is because demographics are fate. As you know, half of Gaza is made up of children. Even though the Jews multiply like rabbits (2.8 TFR), the Gazans do it even quicker (total fertility rate of around 4).

Arabs and others already make up 27% of Israel's population. Now remind me - wasn't the idea that the Jews deserve to have their own home after the Holocaust? In a scenario where they keep grabbing land for settlements, or outright annex Gaza, Israel will simply no longer be Israel.

Then also, beyond the demographic angle, just like in the restaurant business - the key is location, location, location.

Israel cannot perpetually act as a Western military outpost in a sea of Arabs. At some point, the West will tire of pouring in money, free weapons, or providing all-important political cover.

The only way Israel can stay a Jewish state, and have some chance at living in peace with its neighbors, is if it adopts a two state solution to the conflict. Hamas will never find support in any Arab or Muslim capital, if it continues to execute attacks on Israel after Israel had retreated to 67 borders.

Israel once was within 1967 borders. Remind me... What happened later?
Since you are one of the good few guys here please ignore my rhetorical question. I reserve this technique for my enemies.

Seriously, before Israel spends one second thinking about going back to the 1967 borders, Israel has a problem with the savages who like killing Israeli kids no matter where they are. For an extra, they want Israel to disappear from the regional map. There is no way Israel will have these bastards at the negotiating table. They are still recovering from the Munich 1972 episode.

This simply means that the first task is to kill the throat slashers BEFORE we go to phase two - rearranging the furniture and deciding who sleeps where.

Israel is now in Phase 1 - killing the slashers - and should be given our full support. If Arab countries really want peace, they should join Israel in this task. When it's all done, they should be the first responders if and when 10/7 happens again.

As a side note, why does it take a Russian to put something of substance on the table while the weasels are just watching from the bleachers, pleading mental illness and bad childhood?

BTW, this forum should be renamed to the US-Russia Friendship Forum. I would lose the oppo and desire to use "weasel" and "moron" and feel relieved.

You surely mean...."Israel would retreat to 1967 borders and face eventual extinction as a Jewish State."

"Land for Peace" ended with the Hamas massacres on 7th October....Israel has often tried to gain peace with leaving land. But for that it needs a peace-willing partner!

Just as a reminder, Gaza was land without any Jews...

Horrible but true.


It's become a zero sum game now, however we can rest assured that Israel has analysed all possible events (including Black Swan events like the 7/10 pogrom) and have planned for all outcomes.

Every sane human wants peace in that region however right now it is a long way off.

Phase 1 will breed roughly 4 new slashers for every slasher that was made permanently a part of the past. Short of a full-borne ethnic cleansing/genocide - I don't see how Israel can fix this problem.

I feel for Israel - since it's in a damned if you do/damned if you don't position.

But I'm Russian, not Israeli. I don't feel the deep hurt, or animal hatred towards Hamas that they do, because Hamas did not attack me or my compatriots. This allows me better to see, where Israel is guided by emotions, rather than cold hard calculus.

What they are doing now is an emotional response. Kinda like America's - post 9/11. Then, 2,996 Americans were killed by Saudi extremists. As a reaction, America invaded two states, and started the War on Terror - on which it spent trillions. In addition to trillions drained on pointless wars, and the tens of thousands of wounded Americans, there was an unexpected result of Americans losing many of their cherished civil liberties in the name of national security.

The same is happening now to Israel, but on an accelerated timeline. Their budget is straining under the cost of the war, economic growth has been slashed, investments have plummeted. The death toll amongst Israeli soldiers, though undisclosed, is probably multiples of the 300 IDF members that died on 10/7. Netanyahu is calling on the population to rally around the state, as he tries to use the conflict to cement his shaky grip on power. Peace talks with neighboring wealthy Arab states have collapsed.

What's more, this isn't the same Israel as in 1948, 67, or 73. It looks like it lost some of its modjo. It lost its last war against Hezbollah (and this was before Hezbollah gained invaluable experience fighting alongside Assad and the Russians in Syria), and now has been surprised by a multi-pronged attack from Gaza.

I think Israel has to be very careful about how it conducts itself, because its position looks more precarious by the day.

Hamas on the other hand, has nothing to lose.

Take away their financial backers and cheerleaders and they will end like Isis....

Wonder why they would agree to a short truce....only to act humanly suddenly and give back the kidnapped children to their families?

Doesn't fit somehow...

You're a smart guy, you tell me - what's easier to wreck:

1) A liberal democracy, with a market economy that is deeply integrated into the global one, and a highly educated and geographically mobile population.

or

2) A medieval Islamic theocracy, with a moral coordinate system dating to even earlier times, and a population largely consisting of teenagers?

To me - the answer is obvious. Israel is infinitely more fragile, and has infinitely more to lose.

The scary story in Gaza, is that the only threat to Hamas comes from an even more radical group of people. That is, Gazans largely consider Hamas to be "not hardcore enough".

What Israel is engaged in is a fool's errand.

To me too, Bobko!

Especially regarding Iran's youth which is so sick of these old mens with their old rules!

Did you know that this generation is the only one in the muslim world which is not supporting Hamas? Even as its demanded by Teheran, it has become a sign of resistance not to.

Iran reminds me abit about the last years of the GDR....outwardly all strong, but the people already ready and willing to throw it all in the bin.

Now...my bet is on Israel, surving the Mullahs! :)


What is their alternative?

What would you had done come morning 8th October?

Since you asked - I will tell you what I would have done. Be forgiving please with my Middle Eastern peace plan - I've had about 7 minutes to prepare it.

1) Push Hamas militants back into Gaza. Secure the areas where there were infiltrations.

2) Restore control of border fence area.

3) Reach out to Saudis or Qatar or UAE, and ask them to organize an emergency GCC summit. Reach out to Erdogan in Turkey. Make them shareholders in your decision making process.

4) Explain that you feel you have little alternative but to go into Gaza, however you can also see how this could be problematic for the region (not least, because of potential refugee flows).

5) Offer that you are willing to entertain a multilateral approach, but time is of the essence - the Arabs have to table something fast.

6) In return for their involvement, you agree to freeze settlement expansion, and lift trade restrictions on Palestinian Territories.

7) Arabs look good to their enraged populations because they are seen as tempering and moderating Israel's worst impulses in a multilateral security operation, plus they secured important wins for the Palestinians.

8) Israelis offload part of the military and moral cost of the war onto other Arabs. Hamas is isolated.

9) In backdoor negotiations, try to coax the Arabs into creating a fund for the reconstruction of Palestine. If the funds reaches some decent size of a few billion dollars, make access to it conditional on elections being held in Gaza. Hamas cannot be admitted to these elections.

Need more time to think about this.

Hey, no pressure! :)


I dunno about the Saudis or Quatar, but I can tell you about Erdogan (Berlin is the third largest turkish city after all)...he is a sworn enemy of Israel and doesn't let a possibility go to blame Jews for everything, even recently during a short visit to Berlin, putting Scholz into a truly difficult situation...diplomatically....

Israel can't and shouldn't put the lives of it's citizens into those hands...it would be suicide!

Not to mention that all your points would still leave jewish childring in terrorists hands, and these beasts unpunished....

In Russia we have some experience with this, unfortunately.

We went for the Rambo approach, and a lot of our kids died. September 1st is still a sad day in many parts of Russia, because of the Beslan tragedy.

There's no easy answer to this. It's not like Israel's gung-ho approach has really helped those hostages to date.

...nun ja....even as I'm suspicious about these truce-talks, without the IDF rampaging through Gaza there would be no need for a truce for Hamas at all, don't you think?

I don't give a sh!t about Hamas.

I give a sh!t about Israel, because it has many important tech start ups and also a couple hundred nuclear bombs. Otherwise - I also don't give a sh!t about Israel.

I look at their situation, and I see Israel being guided by emotions and acting rashly. That's all.

True!

....and maybe that's a language the equally guided mainly by emotions Arabs will for once understand!

Fight fire with fire - I understand...

....yeah...cool headed, civilized negotiations didn't work...and worse, had been often seen as weakness in these macho-arab eyes....let's give the other approach a chance!

I could guess Hamas was abit badly surprised by that israeli reaction too! Netanjahu is no Rabin!

lol are you joking?

Hamas got exactly what they wanted.

Everything that has happened is exactly what they calculated.

They embarrassed every single Arab leader that had been negotiating with Israel. Now there will be no negotiations. The street will ensure that.

They made Israel look worse than Russia, through its indiscriminate bombing of civilians. Even local PF trolls are doing somersaults to explain how Russia is still the worst country around.

Erdogan is threatening Israel with an effective blockade.

The Saudis abandoned peace talks.

What are you talking about?

....they got what Teheran wanted, the break in the peace talks with Saudi Arabia!

After their plans it should had stopped there...as so often before....the Jews going for negotiations, for the usual talks....I very much doubt the Hamas terrorists planned their end, the death of their leaders, the complete destruction of their military infrastructure in Gaza....

When the IDF is done with Gaza there won't be much Hamas left there, if at all....they will have to start by zero again, that buys time for Israel!

Maybe the Palis also truly believed that they would get more support besides speeches from their foreign backers...another misjudgement!

Their leaders sit in 5 star hotels in Doha, Qatar.


Which supposedly was of no concern. So we are back to the status quo - pre conflagration.


Here's your problem. This is where you are wrong. Hamas is not some garden weed, the removal of which you can be sure of.

....but they can't do much with their puppets dead!

I follow the IDF on social media....barely a day goes by without the proof of another Hamas big shot dead or in captivity....gets them lotsa likes, everytime! :)

Did you hear about the tunnel system being found (under hospitals etc.) and destroyed? Every day the destruction of Hamas goes on....and that's the only reason for Hamas to be open to talks so suddenly now!


The allies did it with the Nazis....the US and allies did it with Isis....it works! You only have to be willing enough to truly do what it takes, and Israel is willing!

list of high-ranking terrorists eliminated so far in the war against Hamas....

I would argue - for your sake - that Hamas has a much deeper penetration of society than the Nazis.

They certainly have much more broad-based support than ISIS.

You are not being realistic in your appraisals of the two sides.

.....let's end it here and see, only the future will show who was right, right? Right!

'night :)