Let's debate American Politics

As long as they don't need federal funds themselves, that is. F*cking hypocrites.



Those who initially denied the victims of hurricane Sandy the financial help when they needed it are now begging for money. Those who constantly repeat their stupid mantra of "get the Feds out of my life" are asking for the help of the Feds yet again. Nothing to do with Hair Trump, all to do with the lying GOP weasels in the House and Senate.


States most dependent on federal money (2017) - almost all of them Red States:

wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700

Awe come on now, a hurricane was not a personal bad choice now was it.
Living beyond your means is a personal bad choice.


That's $540 a month which is my point, if welfare recipients didn't smoke they could afford to buy their own food so in essence I am forced to buy their cigarettes for them or booze or dope or cable t.v. or.............

Hell if I made bad choices and spent beyond my budget I would be on welfare too.
Nothing burns my ass more then to see people ahead of me in the grocery store checkout lane put $300 on the food stamp card and then walk out the door and light up a cigarette and pull out there $800 cell phone to call a cab $$$ to give them a ride two blocks down the street to their low cost housing complex that I helped pay for and maintain.

Don't get me going Othery.

@TheOther

Two things:

1. You were discussing climate change earlier. The issue with global warming, climate change etc is that it can't really be proven or disproven. Scientists all around the world use the scientific method to prove or disprove a hypothesis. The scientific method is the universally recognized method for determing whether a hypothesis was correct or not. (Scientific method involves making a hypothesis, designing an experiment, etc. As well as being able to repeat the experiment and arriving at the same results) As such there's really no way to prove global warming etc. A scientist can make an observation, hypothesize whether co2 causes global warming or not, then design an expierment. This is where the scientist would get stuck. In order to decide whether global warming/climate change occurs due to co2 a scientist would have to design an experiment where he or she basically makes several earths one with no co2 as a control and then one earth with perhaps a low level of co2, a second with medium levels, a third with high levels. All other variables would have to eliminated like for example the exact same amount of plants on each 'earth,' the exact same amount of sunlight, no other gases or pollutants, etc. Then the scientist would have to jot down the data as time goes on -years and years if not several decades. To be valid, the experiment would have to be conducted numerous times and give the same results each time. The scientist would publish his findings in a peer reviewed scholarly journal and other scientists would have to recreate the same experiment to eliminate possible bias and arrive at the same results.

Nonetheless, I do believe that pollution amongst other things are messing with the earth. Even when I was a kid in the 90s I remember the seasons being much more predictable and the temperatures roughly the same year to year each season. Now winters seem to have gotten more mild but then once every 4 or 5 years well have like record breaking subzero temps and tons of snowfall. Even with the hurricanes - they seem to be hitting the east and southeast more frequently and appear to be stronger and stronger. I can't recall for example new york city ever experiencing things like the hurricane (I believe hurricane Sandy it was called) a few years back.

As the saying goes, the absence of evidence isnt evidence of abscene. We may not yet be able to conduct a solid experiment following the scientific method, but based on the observations and data of many well known scientists it appears somethings up. I'm not saying to shut down industries but we definitely need to take a look at pollution even for health reasons. We do know at the very least that carbon dioxide amongst other gases affects the troposphere and warms up the planet.

2. All states receive federal funds. Of course a large populated state like california is going to receive more funds than say Kentucky. So yes if say california receives 10 bil from the feds out of a 100 bil budget it's going to be a smaller percentage than say Kentucky receiving 500 mil out of a 2 bil budget. California also has far higher state income taxes and property taxes which hurts home owners and workers since they have to give up so much money and its not as if the roads or other public services are hugely superior from one state to another.

What ultimately matters is how the state uses the funds they receive regardless of whether it comes from property taxes state or federal income taxes etc and how high or low federal funds are a percentage of the overall budget. Illinois and california are at the bottom of that list yet theyre insolvent not from receiving a low amount of federal funds but from terrible mismanagement. These states have among the highest state income and property taxes in the us. Meanwhile many red states have very little to absolutely no state income taxes and very low property taxes. Yet they have far healthier budgets.

I don't know about you but id prefer to live in a place with little to no income taxes so I can keep 4% more of my paycheck and lower property taxes so I can put that money back into the economy and even use it instead for things like home repairs.

Big of you to say.

Poverty's a nasty thing, though they say it's not a sin. Bad habits like smoking/drinking come with the territory, and are the de-stressor of choice when you don't have the money for yoga and fresh pressed juices, or the luxury of a nice park nearby where you can go for a jog. And god knows poor folks have more things to stress about. In my mind the bigger problem is why the f%ck cigarettes cost so much in the first place. It's not like that tax money is being used to offset the higher insurance premiums non-smokers pay for my sickly ass. The things are goddamn cheap to produce.

I agree regarding the expensive smartphones. Smartphones are becoming a necessity in modern life, but one with all the functionality you need can be gotten for ~$80 or even less. Not sure about Uber. When I lived in Harlem for two years I didn't see too many of the old locals using Uber, but only the yuppie kids from Columbia.

@johnny reb

The worst is that many of the section 8 dwellers will purposely break something so they don't have to pay their part of the rent which could be as little as $20 to $100 a month. Sometimes they'll even sell the appliances and claim they broke and they put them out in the alley. I know landlords who deal with this time and time again. Its good for the contractors because they have work but it sucks for owners of section 8 type rental properties. One of my friends is a black real estate investor. He use to remodel and rent very nice apartments in one of the absolute worst neighborhoods around here. He wanted to give something back to his community where he grew up. However he was sick of the way the 'animals' (his words) live and stopped buying rental properties in bad areas because it was costing him way too much time and money to constantly fix stupid stuff that the tenants would purposely break. Eventually they came to an agreement where he said that he didn't care about their rent portion as long as they don't break anything. What good is $100 if you have to spend several hundred to replace a sink, door, window, etc.

One time a guy broke into one of his places literally like a week or two after he was done remodeling it and had just put for rent signs in front. The guy cut a hole into the siding to sneak in and destroyed every single window just to steal some $80 worth of aluminum. Over $20k in damage... Insurance covered it then kicked him out citing too much risk. He found another company but had to pay ridiculously high rates because of that incident... And this is a black dude trying to give back to the community he's from : /

Also the house next to him is abandoned but some squatters live there and even illegally hooked up power from the main lines. Apparently its a very long difficult process to evict someone who illegally broke into your property and is staying there.

Less then twenty five cents a pack is my understanding.


Oh Lord above........who am I to debate you then.
You have seen it all.


I suppose but damn it quit making bad choices to dig the hole deeper I would tell them.

If it were only so simple...


Yes, hypocrisy. Right-libertarians seem very happy to use public roads, have street lighting, drainage etc.

And you lefties don't ? lol

Very happy, since we believe society should work together. lol

It doesn't matter whether you call it global warming, climate change or God's revenge. Fact is that average temperatures and sea levels are rising, that glaciers and ice sheets are melting, and that the atmosphere is more polluted than ever. We have a simple choice: sticking our heads in the sand like Pruitt and pretend that nothing is happening, or being proactive and taking care of our environment just in case the scientists that are warning us are right. What's wrong with clean water and air, and coastal cities that are actually above water?


Yes, but only a few demand that the Feds stay out of their lives...

So do we and wonder why you fight us/Trump on everything he does.

Hey have you heard how your wet dream is going on the Trump investigation lately ?
The New York Post's John Crudele had an interesting column outlining how the bogus Democrat/Media/Deep State instigated Trump investigation is backfiring on Democrats as the American citizen's are growing weary of repeated allegations without actual proof.

Beyond that there is something even more concerning for Democrats.
The investigation is actually shedding light on wrongdoing by figures like Crooked Hillary and James Comey and NOT Donald Trump.
I have told you all along that you have been trying to hang the wrong person jon.

@TheOther

I dont think all red states do that. Its more prevalent in the South but most don't care or get too vocal about it in the red Midwestern rustbelt or the northwest red states. You're overgeneralizing it a bit. Also it doesn't pertain to things like having federal agencies within their states, us military bases, funding for things like colleges, etc. It has to do more with more personal family type decisions that some people perhaps even many but certainly not all con't want the government involved in. The people tend to simply want their state to be involved in certain decisions and have votes/referendums on certain things at the state level. Hell things even go further to the county level. Each place in us is pretty unique as the people in each one but there's a good mix all around.

You misunderstood me, I grouped climate change global warming pollution c02 since they kind of all fall within the same categories and topics. Like I said, as an outdoorsman and nature lover I'm all for a clean environment. Plus there's deadlock from scientists along with many paid to be biased. But yes our coastal cities may be under water in the near future. Also another issue is so many different country's economic lifeline is oil. The world will make the change and cope as things go but I do believe well see more green energy in the coming decades. Lots of more hybrid cars not at the very least. At the same time tho the world is gradually getting richer and even some.middle class people in 3rd world countries are now able to afford a cheaper car or at least a bike or scooter if they're a lil poorer

Also fyi roads are collected in part from gas taxes. Most states have additional services that they pay for like snow removal and salting helping broken down cars etc. The states differ greatly in amount of tolls and thejr price. Some have none some are non stop in places like ny nj ca il and rather expensive. You can easily pay 10 bucks in tolls for a 30 min ride there and back

They can't grasp the concept of emergency management and or what FEMA does.

It would be nice to come on here just for one day without the Limey Lounge`s pompous rhetoric.

That really reminds me of last year when Ammon Bundy and his armed militia occupied that wildlife refuge in Oregon - demanding that the federal land should be given back to the "original owners", the white farmers. There are many things that cannot and should not be decided on a regional level because of all the old boys networks that are dominating the towns of rural America.

@TheOther

That's totally different.. Also I don't believe they wanted ownership they wanted it to go the state.. Then again idk I try not to pay attention to a couple fringe loons whether they're left or right

I live around numerous red states where I have numerous conservative friends. I've never heard of them or any of their friends complaining about a federal military base or some national park or anything the feds operate. Like most people they just want some tax relief and the government to leave certain decisions to them. For example some now states provide exemptions for vaccines if you have a religious objection I.e. Jehovah witness

Or take marijuana for example. States both blue and red want to be able to decide for themselves whether marijuana should be legal for medicinal and or recreational uses within their boundaries regardless of the feds schedule I

The amount of people that want the feds totally Out of their lives are very small and ttpically limited to secessionist types. Most simply don't care and am just want lower taxes and perhaps the ability for the state to have more say so in certain matters.

I was using the Bundy clowns only as an example of what might go wrong if you let the locals decide. The question is where you draw the line. What constitutes "too much federal influence", what is "too much local control"? It needs to be balanced. Vaccination and dope are good examples.

I once studied a course on American history, and one of the assignment was to argue for or against the right of states to leave the Union. It was one of the most fascinating things I've ever studied, because you really had to dig into the speeches made by the Founding Fathers and so on. My argument was based on the fact that if something is not explicitly prohibited in common law jurisdictions, then it must be permitted - in which case, secession must therefore be allowed.

Either way, it would have been an interesting world if the CSA had survived as an independent state.

Was the scope of the assignment's question contained to within the antebellum era, or to the entirety of United States history? At present, the argument is considered settled, and has been since 1869 when the Supreme Court ruled in Texas v. White that the Constitution does not allow for unilateral secession.

Edit:


I guess you're also excited like me about the upcoming HBO series Confederate. It comes from the creators of Game of Thrones.

@delphiandomine

The only state in the U.S. that has a somewhat large secessionist population is Texas (still a small amount of people in the overall states population but certainly more than say like Pennsylvania for example). There's even been some recent talk mainly amongst people with far left political views that the liberal states like California Oregon Washington ought to secede and be like their own liberal country. Unsurprisingly Russia actually gives money to these various secessionist groups as well as secessionist from other countries (I.e. some parts of Spain I believe its catalonia where secessionism its more prevalent than other parts). These groups often meet in Russia and discuss their ideas. Of course the support they get from Russia isn't because Russia cares about them and their views, they're more interested in the instability it would cause which benefits Russia.

There have been numerous instances where parts of countries secede and form their own independent country. Sometimes its peaceful like with the breakup of Czechoslovakia other times its brutally violent like with Yugoslavia or after the referendum in Crimea to join Russia. Its a messy game.

In general though the secessionist movement is fairly small in the us. In Texas they tend to be more far right individuals while in California Oregon Washington its more leftists which is actually a new phenomenon. The idea of Texas seceding has been thrownabout for a long time now though. At the same time some territories esp Puerto Rico the people are divided - politicians seem to want closer ties to the us and perhaps even statehood while on the other there's several groups who want an independent puetro Rico.

Secessionism and creating new borders and all is definitely a messy complicated business. Although we have seen it end peacefully in the past. However it seems like one side always ends up getting the better deal which oftentimes is simply due to one part having more economic and geopolitical significance like for example czechy over Slovakia. Nonetheless at least the process is peaceful and Slovakia is catching up to its old partner and growing rapidly.

Good topic for a classroom. Could be a side discussion or even something you bring up as you discuss civil wars which oftentimes begin with one group wanting to secede and be independent, join another country, or whatever their goals are. There's probably a close tie between secessionism and civil war in several cases - esp the us civil war. In some of the others you mentioned like the Rwandan war it seemed to be more ethnic. Tutsis vs the other group (forgor their name it just slipped out of my mind... Damn now ill have to look it up lol)

@TheOther

Yes absolutely. There's always fringes who take things way too far and people get killed and or injured. Left right black white fat skinny etc. Most of these people oftentimes are loners and unsucessful pretty low education etc but every so often you get someone like Carlos the jackal who was extremely intelligent and was very devoted to the plo and rights of 3rd world countries. However his way of 'helping' these countries, namely terrorism, didn't do any good. Plus he killed a lot of innocent people needlessly who weren't allied with the forces he and his associates were fighting. I.e. bombing a Jewish guys pharmacy? I mean wtf how is that suppose to help the Palestinian struggle? I feel for the Palestinians as I've been to Israel and Palestine a few times but there's better ways to go about this. The Oslo accords were good first step too bad this issue has become so polarizing and politicians seem to refuse to find a middle ground and compromise.

I briefly read about the oregon standoff after you mentioned it as I wasn't too familiar with it. It appears the rancher got in some trouble for letting animals graze on the land but he didn't even solicit the militia dudes help and didn't want it. I think sometimes people like them have like a complex where they think they're like some important commander leading an important movement and that they'll be proclaimed a hero. Its like they collect weapons and just wait for some issue or set of circumstances to present themselves to create havoc. It was kind of the same with anders brejvik (I know I'm butchering his last name but whatever). Idk how anyone can think killing dozens of children attending a summer camp would make him a hero. He thought it'd ignite a Norwegian race war yet the exact opposite happened... Charles Manson had a similar thought (helter skelter) decades earlier.

The people in the carribean are getting hampered by hurricane Irma. Saint Martin is destroyed, barbuda (of Antigua and barbuda) reports 90% of homes are rubble, San Juan is now getting hit and Cuba and Florida are next. Lot of suffering lot of damage and a few deaths as well. Even sir Richard bransons house got totaled but with his billions. He reportedly hunkered down in his wine cellar.. Imo classy - hey if you're a rich dude what better place to hunker down than a cozy cellar surrounded by delicious wine. I do really feel bad though for all the people who lost everything. Texas just got hit and now this storm is ravaging the carribean and more than likely soon florida as well

Antebellum. As I remember, the general point was to show us that much of the US Constitution could be considered a compromise, hence why it's written in a very broad way and subject to huge interpretation, unlike the more proscriptive European constitutions.

I tried to tell you jon that your propaganda was baseless jon.
How about an apology to President Trump for you bad mouthing him and being wrong again.
Here is the latest updated on your erroneous claim:

FBI Director Christopher Wray brushed off concerns Thursday that the Trump administration had interfered with the special counsel's Russia probe.
"I can say very confidently that I haven't detected any whiff of interference with that investigation," said Wray, in his first public appearance since taking over the bureau.

Yah Right, Keep dreaming! All they are going to find is more Clinton corruption, their investigation is totally backfiring on them......LoL


Next probe, SHOEGATE!

See the meltdown over Melanias shoes? Just more manufactured propaganda from the msm.

Trump bulldozed over all their negative attempts by the msm to discredit him after Harvey. They fail miserably after Trump took charge making them look like even bigger buffoons than they already are.


I was once in a Hurricane "Andrew" back in 92.........
People who stay behind and try to ride the storm out are idiots.

How do you like his deal with Pelosi and Schumer? Maybe IQ45 is a Democrat after all? Ha ha ha.

I wouldn't call it a deal, it only lasts until December. It was more like a shot across the bow to all those dead beat rep Senators in Congress to get to work!

Trump warned them if they did`t pass any legislation he would reach across the aisle. That ought to kick them in the rear!

We really need term limits for Congress as well.

Have you seen McCain lately? He looks like he should be on an episode of The Walking Dead. Come on, retire already!!

IQ145 was a Democrat in his younger year.
He finally saw the light that the Right is always right and switched and won the presidency.