Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades

Soviet talking point that started dying out in Ukraine after 1990 but which Russians still fervently cling to...


Would Austrians be objectively better off if Germany annexed Austria as the nine new Bundesländer?

hitler did that.

@Strzelec35
"the polaks are everyone's pawn." In the past maybe, but not any more. Pride in the Poland of today is cross generational. I think this country would fight quite differently if forced into something. With US arriving before things actually start, and the amount of hard military weapons already here, Russia would be making a big mistake to even get close to the border.

The Russians will sustain mass casualties in Ukraine if it happens. Ukraine will be taken over in less than three days and tens of thousands will die. It will not look good on Putin when the body bags start making their way back to Moscow.

and this is exactly why they are pawns the fake us mi,itwry build up etc. is just a game a ruse.

they know nobody is going to invade poland or threatening it because theyd have to go through belarus ukriane or baltics first so us is building up a junk or empty space army. when the threat is real most likely the amey will be nowhere to be seen.

Russians need only to restore the legitimate president and get assurances that Ukraine will never be NATO's beachhead. They have zero interest in killing Ukrainians and everybody there knows it. That is why if they play it right there will be no casualties just as there were none in Crimea. Just a lot of hot air from West. They will even mark Ukraine as "occupied" as they did with Crimea.

If you were a Ukrainian, would risk your life because you don't like the new president - with all else being the same?

and who, pray tell, would that be?

you have permission to answer

@Novichok
Disagree that the former government was legitimate. Ukraine people are prepared to die to keep Russians out. Russians are not prepared to die to get Ukraine. Ukraine will be part of NATO eventually, and any Russian incursion will likely hasten that event. This is really a bad position for Putin, and surprisingly stupid when Nordstream2 hangs in the balance. The SWIFT cutoff would crush Russia in less than a month.

With no gas or money flowing to Russia, those people head back to food coupons and bread lines pretty quickly. The country is barely above third world as it is. Really just stupid move here, and purely ego driven.

So let me ask again using your own words.

Are you prepared to die for anything other than a direct threat to your family or yourself?
Is there any evidence that Russia would kill unresisting Ukrainians during and after the invasion?

Both questions are yes/no kind so let's start with the answers to both. Since I asked them, it's only fair that I also give answers. Mine are: No. No.


This is where you are skating on very thin ice. If the US entered Canada because it found out that China is going to set up a military base there, would you call such operation "ego-driven"?

Fair enough. My answers would be Yes, if I had a gun and my family was safe in another location and the Russians came rolling in, I would take as many out as I could. Yes, there is historical evidence in multiple wars and post war scenarios that the Russians would kill civilians. Since I am in Poland now, and guns are next to impossible to get your hands on, I will have to also say that without a gun in my possession, no, I would not try to fight with sticks and stones. But I would still reply yes to the second question.

As for the Canadian question, you are making an apples to oranges comparison. NATO membership is not setting up bases on the border, and China is an aggressive military force while NATO is by nature defensive. That said, my answer would depend on who was President of the US at the time. If it is Biden then it would not be ego driven because I think he is just a sheep following orders from the military.

Thanks for answering - with qualifications but at least you did. My only comment is that shooting the invading Russians who are not shooting at you would be counterproductive as that would give them a very good reason to shoot right back. In that exchange, they would prevail. Suicide by a Russian. Not smart.

@Novichok
True, but if you grew up hunting and killing from tree stands and knew how to hide well, you could still pick off a bunch. In the end, taking out a bunch who are likely to take you out during or after an invasion anyway is a choice, and not cowardly.

Taking your thought process though, aren't many Russian soldiers preparing to commit suicide by Ukraine citizen for invading a country that most of Russians don't GAF about?

This all said, Poles or any other country should not be going to Ukraine to protect Ukraine because they are not members of NATO. Supplying them with weapons is great. Let them die for their own country. Maybe then they will get their $**T together and create a real self sufficient economy and get out of the third world mentality.

Now, "we are on the same page".

That's that you think... a dead son/husband/father means a payout from the government and a surprisingly large number of families are willing to take the money and be quiet in public....

reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-insight-idUSKBN12Y0M6

Human life doesn't have much value in Russia... the evidence is abundant yet many don't want to know...

You are A Russian troll on the roll. You would shoot some 'refugges' but wouldn't Russian soldiers. Are you bipolar, a russian troll or just stupid.

Have to agree....that keeps me wondering about Putin's true motives....he is usually not that stupid!

There was a consent in the West not to encroach Russia and keep NATO away from it's borders....then he had to invade Crimea.....and every threatening move he makes now makes it harder for pro-Putin western politicians (especially Germans) to keep Ukraine out of NATO and hang onto Nordstream 2....he really makes it super difficult to find arguments....and maybe even impossible...it is all like a car accident with announcement, he has to know that too! And still....

See my post #506....

I really think the US (esp Milley and Biden) are doing their best to make a Russian invasion happen....

People get stuck in the past and cling to old arguments.... I detest Putin but I think he's just playing his usual build up on the border games but the US is trying to maneuver him into thinking he has to invade...

Nordstream was and is a terrible idea, a way for Russia to gain more leverage over German policy (not what anyone but the Russian government wants).

How???

The decision about Crimea was what started that all, and that was made in Moscow only.....where do you see the US involved?


Agreed! The US had been against it from the beginning....

All the rhetoric about how powerful Russia is and how quickly Kyiv / Ukraine will fall is coming from the states. Why is the US hyping up a foreign invasion by another country - especially talking about how quick and effective it would be? This is new... it's not coming from people who think like you or me....

A Russian media watcher says there's not much about Ukraine in Russian media (while Crimea was preceded by months of unending extreme propaganda).

Invading Ukraine had always been Putin's version of Trump's wall on the Mexican border - a point meant to whip up support among his base but about which not much was done. The almost complete failure of the Novorossiya project back in 2014-15 showed Russia that getting Ukraine 'back' would really, really difficult.

....or they just know more than you or me...with all their secret services and such....

(but that Milley guy sounds fishy.....all pro-China types are fishy)

its the us media not the us govt hyping it up. same media hyping trannies up.

Tell me something I don't know. I like Russia and I like Putin so let's not go there again.


Yes, I would just as fast as would anyone breaking into my house. That's why I have four guns, one per floor plus the garage.


No, I wouldn't because I am not a suicidal moron like the Warsaw Uprising "heroes" who caused 200,000 Poles to die for nothing.
See what a nice guy I am? I responded to your comments - honestly and without equivocation. I even corrected your spelling of "refugees" so you would look better.

That was very nice of you, Novichok.

OK, let`s take a closer look at the stuff Poland is going to send to Ukraine.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piorun_(missile)

The Piorun (meaning "thunderbolt" in Polish) is a man-portable air-defense system of Polish production, designed to destroy low-flying aircraft, airplanes, helicopters and drones.

• 
  xfPiorun.jpg.pagespe.jpg
  

I want one of those.

For this to happen, the country must be populated by a nation willing to fight for it and be governed by a respected government. Not by motley groups with divergent interests and a government of Nazi freaks who came to power in a coup and immediately surrendered the country politically to foreign control and economically to the oligarchs to plunder.

Paranoia of this kind dissipates quickly, and leave strong immunity to demagogy. I know this very well - by my own feelings. I was on barricades during GKChP coup attempt, ready to fight for freedom and democracy in Russia, but few following years showed me very well what this "freedom and democracy" really means (while it was loudly praised from the West).

I am assuming that you are referring to the 2014 putsch.

Probably you are Nostradamus v2.0 ... ;)

@mafketis
Speaking to colleagues in Moscow yesterday, real people living their whole lives in the city, there is not a whole lot of media frenzy on this subject, but there is plenty of talk in private conversations. That talk centers largely around the question of "why?". Those that are having the conversations can not understand why Putin even wants Ukraine. The idea of NATO actually making an aggressive military move toward Russia if Ukraine was in NATO is not even realistic. NATO needs Russia and China to justify its existence. It needs little wannabe countries like Belarus.

That said, yes the flames of war are being fanned by the US and others because war is needed right now. Keep everyone from thinking about the pandemic mistakes and inflation, while fighting for liberty and creating jobs with the military industrial complex. Its been done before. Ukraine again is just a pawn.

Truer words have not been spoken.
Moreover, having modernized its military instead of its economy, Russia must strike while the iron is hot.
Putin has accumulated an astronomical $620 billion in foreign-exchange reserves, weaned the economy from its dollar dependence, and repatriated oligarchs' assets, all to prepare for this moment.

The economic conditions for supporting an invasion will not be so favorable again anytime soon, if ever in Putin's lifetime.

But, I suspect, China will strike instead, while all attention is at Ukraine. ;)

Brrrr... Situation on semiconductor market is already a disaster (I cannot purchase some chips even in small quantities, leadtime is 45+ weeks) and if TSMC will be stopped for months, it will be complete hell.