Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades

@Paulina

What you write about Russian approach to Orthodoxy may well be true, but as far as Christianity is concerned I am willing to give people a huge benefit of the doubt - it's worth it! And, as C.S. Lewis wrote in "Mere Christianity" - what connects Christian churches is more important than what divides them.

I used to think that too, but seeing PiS and Putin in action I must say that I completely disagree and I don't share that sentiment anymore.


I hope you're joking, Mr Taliban...


Maybe to some extent the 21st century is a bit of a disappointment since we're regressing in some ways, but I defenitely prefer modernity over some medieval attitudes.


Yeah, well, tell that to the Russians...

Hehehe, Paulina understands what she is saying!

Orthodoxy, or Православие, is the most correct, most pure, most superior form of Christianity. All other Christian churches are run by little girls. This, every Russian believes in his heart.

@Bobko; every Russian believes....
It doesn' have to be true...

Crucial problem of Ukraine is nazism, not human rights. One can be gay and patriot or gay and nazi or Jew and anti-nazi or Jew and nazi

In Serbia we have PM Ana Brnabic, she is LGBT, Catholic and patriot in a country predominantly Orthodox and still loyal to Svetovid.

Because we tend to think short-term, 5-10 years perspective at most. In the long run sticking to Christianity (and supporting it on state-level too) will turn out for the best.


Well... let's leave this topic at this particular moment. ;)


We don't have to go back that far in time. Let's say late 17th century (around 1683 perhaps) - God had His rightful place on Earth back then, Poland had her rightful place on Earth back then, and things in general were looking rather well for humanity. However, the farther we moved from faith the quicker things started to deteriorate. :-/


Yes, it seems to be a serious problem at the moment. But who knows... maybe there are reasons for optimism in the long run (call me a sucker, but I would really want to believe the trends in Russian society that Bobko mentioned). Let this war finally end, let's clean up all the mess, and then slowly reconsider what can be done and observe how things develop.


It's not wrong to believe that. Catholics believe the same, Calvinists believe the same etc. but it doesn't exclude cooperation (Francis and Cyryl get on rather well, don't they? :)).

Please avoid excessive quotes

China balancing but won`t give up Taiwan which stupendous and greedy USA and NATO hold as satellite.

Reality of Taiwan situation always reminds China who are arch-enemies. Always remind them on all humiliation, stealing technologies from China, genocides, dictates, etc. So, China does not need to have alliance with Russia. No, China knows how things stand and if Russia fall, China is next. Meaning, China will act accordingly.

Actually, some sources claim that the war in Ukraine destroyed China's plans for Taiwan; invasion was planned for Autumn and now with the West on high alert those plans will have to be delayed.


It has been rather the other way around, but that was to be expected when most of the West's production was moved to China.

Oh no need to trust. Basically mentioned three things - (1) drop in abortions (2) drop in alcohol consumption (3) increased growth of church's role in society. Instead of Russian Wikipedia just use World Health Organization, or whatever relevant source for the ecclesiastical issues.

Here is something for alcohol:
who.int/substance_abuse/publications/global_alcohol_report/profiles/rus.pdf

Abortions:
rferl.org/amp/russia-plan-reduce-abortions/31473124.html

Since I don't know any "church tracking agencies" I'll give you this article.

aleteia.org/2018/01/02/russias-orthodox-church-has-opened-30000-places-of-worship-in-last-30-years/

I have seen this number mentioned in Russian press too. Thirty thousand new churches opened in thirty years!!! Three churches opened every single day. Yet, these fellas are saying they need another thirty years to just reach the level of 1917...

Like I said, I'm not a happy camper when it comes to this. Still very much a Marxist-Leninist Political Economist when trying to make sense of the world, and it is scary to see the opium sellers making a comeback :)

Did you expect Chinese not to retaliate?

Stealing of technologies was started by Vatican and western Europe. Few examples: gunpowder, rocketry, porcelain, tea know how, etc.

@Crow

You are one interesting bird, Crow.

Apologies for looping back to Cossacks. I just imagined if one of them (and thank god, I forgot to explain this, they are mostly in the south - specifically Kuban) actually approached me while I was walking with a woman to whom I am not married and tried to tell me anything - I would promptly stick his whip up his ass.

Thank you for the links. That's why I think that blocking RT, Sputnik, Tass and even some Polish websites (like "Myśl Polska", for example) was a mistake. People need to hear views and information from both sides (and let them decide what is propaganda and what is credible).


O_O ... *shocked* ... but didn't you say you were an entrepreneur doing business in New York or something like that?


Well, as one Polish "opium seller" used to say - "Have no fear!". :)


Yes, I am quite sure that all those Chinese copies of Audi, Mercedes or latest CPUs are a direct retaliation for gunpowder and porcelain. :) Get a grip of yourself, Врана.

This is what Marx haters don't understand. Man was a genius when it came to understanding how capitalism works (with minor caveats). I think reading Das Kapital is as good as going to business school, but probably better. Many things about the modern world, Marx predicted. You just need to flex the framework a bit, and throw out obviously ahistorical moments, and it all begins to work again. The stuff Stalin and Mao did to put their own imprint on the approach has nothing to do with Marx who was loooooong dead by that point.

The invaluable Kamil Galeev (I just saw somewhere how young this guy is, how is he so smart at such an age?)

Anyway, he has a thread on Putin's mini-"Triumph des Willens" rally yesterday

twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1504910499418234882

shorter version: It's all staged and the people there are mostly strongly pressured/forced to attend... and that's just the way Putin likes it.; you'll be arrested for trying to organize a pro-war rally on your own as you would be for demonstrating against the war; Putin doesn't want principled support (because that could turn on him someday) he wants passive acquiescence to whatever he's saying at the time.

He tends to promote passive personalities who show no initiative but simply follow orders (which is one reason why Russia is doing so badly at so many levels at present).

Its the matter of perception. Technology basis of western Europe is founded on Chinese (and Slavic) inventions. Then, western Europe created mighty fleet of ships and moved to control warm waters of Earth and established control, dictate, that way cut-off development of others. Did it to Slavs, Chinese, Indians, Arabs, etc.

See, that era ending now. Liberation starting from Ukraine.

"Polish Catholicism" may not necessarly be the same as "Christianity"... That's the problem... And who knows how long PiS will rule...


Yeah, and women had their "rightful place" back then too, so... no, thank you... No. JUST NO WAY.


Yes, but they don't view each other as enemies anymore... Poles have a neutral view of Orthodoxy, they like the look of Orthodox churches, they like Orthodox icons and don't care much about the rest, it seems... In Russia though it looks like there's a long, deeply rooted tradition of hostility towards the Vatican and Catholicism and it seems like our religion is viewed as a threat to Russia and the Russian identity or something...

GefreiterKania, I have a simple question for you - when was the last time the pope visited Russia? The answer is - never... It was John Paul's II long-lasting dream to visit Russia, which was never fulfilled... He even visited Cuba, imagine that...

I tend to agree, he was a frequently brilliant historian/theoretician (how much modern social science/humanities theory is directly or indirectly based on him? ..... most of it)

But he was terrible at extrapolating his ideas into the future and every attempt to operationalize his ideas has quickly degenerated into barbarism and the purer the approach the worse the results...

@Paulina

It doesn't help that you guys have visions of the Virgin Mary appearing before Portuguese kids - telling them she wants them to consecrate Russia. Feeds the paranoia of our opium sellers.


I mean, it's pretty darn hard to operationalize his ideas in my specific type of business. However, it certainly does inform my approach to analyzing problems, pretty much any kind.

Dialectical materialism vs the Bible when it comes to explaining how we got here... DM wins every time.

Vatican using religion for control, manipulation and power.

Sure, Constantinople tried but Serbs didn`t allow and Crusaders finally destroyed it. Serbs resisted to control of Vatican, too.

See, that is why we were victims of Greek and Vatican genocide. They have consensus when it come to Serbs and Slavs. They always sought to prevent us from raising our head.

But, this era ending now. Liberation starting from Ukraine.

All this understanding didn't prevent him from dying in abject poverty. You, being a businessman in the USA, are certainly not following in his footsteps.


The problem is that countries that followed the teachings of Das Kapital were never doing terribly well economically, did they?


That's what my Dad says, but even he admits that economically the socialist system in Poland was nonsensical.


In this fallen world there won't be a "perfect" Christian church. That's why we have to stick to the basics, retain the core beliefs and not concentrate on differences.


Relax, Paulina. Put more trust into men. We know what women want and desire in their innermost heart. There are more serious problems to deal with at the moment. We will come back to this conversation after the war.


...and when was the last time Russian Patriarch visited Vatican? You are again thinking short-term. I am quite sure that in the next 2000 years we will witness such visit.

Too many quotes, cut down please

Remember; these are not crippling sanctions. They are a special financial operation, designed to save Russia's collapsed economy...

It's happening on the 25th of March...

wydarzenia.interia.pl/religia/news-co-rosja-ma-wspolnego-z-objawieniami-w-fatimie-wazny-gest-pa,nId,5898935

...first the Pope will consecrate Russia and Ukraine to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and then Polish Cardinal, Konrad Krajewski, will do the same in Fatima. The decision is final and you can't stop it now. Perhaps it could have been avoided, but the actions of your army in Ukraine forced the Pope to take firm action.

A contraire... tradtional pro-capitalist business literature is completely based on Marxists ideas (the last holdout of what is known as 'vulgar Marxism') the only difference is the values are reversed (great! we're oppressing the proletariat! -- they don't put it that way but that's the idea).

Of all your posts here in the last decade, that one is probably the most spot on..

Not everything is as you say. He left a modest sum for his family. Later, when Engels finally died, he left Marx's daughters a pretty substantial fortune as inheritance (would be millions today). Throughout his life Marx was supported by various well wishers, even though he was a famous drunk and asshol*.

Regarding what he would think of me.... Well, he did accept Engels didn't he? Who owned textile factories?

Exactly. World giving up from dollar. Civilizations creating their own financial mechanisms. World becoming truly Multi-Polar.

And without the pariah state Russia and its dodgy allies.

The world looks beak for them now.

Oy vey! What did we do to deserve this forced consecration? I'm genuinely curious if some religious Russian on the forum can respond, since I have no idea how serious this issue is. Speaking for myself, you can consecrate Russia and me 7 days a week.

Well, you can joke all you want, but let's wait to the 25th of March and see what happens. :)

BTW, Tomasz Terlikowski, a leading catholic publicist in Poland, thinks that the spiritual centre of "Ruski Mir" will come back from Moscow to Kiev now.

deon.pl/wiara/wojna-o-prawoslawie-kijow-a-nie-moskwa-stanie-sie-centrum-religijnym-ruskiego-swiata,1940018

To be honest I didn't remember about that - the Fatima secrets aren't exactly the core of Catholic teaching or something... The Russians I've discussed with also didn't mention it...

Also, that Second Fatima Secret was about what is now in the past already - it was about the end of World War I and the beginning of World War II:

"God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pope Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the Consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church."

So, it wasn't really about Catholicism, but about Christianity vs communism - the kids from Fatima had their visions just a few months before the October Revolution in Russia.


Not the Russian Orthodox patriarch, but:

nbcnews.com/news/world/once-millenium-move-orthodox-patriarch-attend-popes-installation-flna1c8930174


No, I'm simply informing you what the situation is now. It's not just about religion, it seems, it's more like a clash of civilisations is still going on.


Well, we won't, we're going to be long dead :))) ;)