Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades

Nope, just the twitter link I posted....it sounds interesting though as it would mean the participation of NATO....kinda....

Yeah, let's get blown to smithereens over some Ukies, half of which want to be Russian anyway.

So many tremendous Russian supporters. It must be satisfying to see how well Russia did with an attempted re-opening of the stock exchange. A limited opening where the only trading that could be done was with the Russian central bank saw bonds declining around 30%. No trading at all allowed on individual stocks as the country faces the system being nearly wiped out. Good old mother Russia. Typical behavior of all those supporters. They run as soon as they can. When you return to the motherland, the building may still be standing, but the refrigerators and banks will be empty. Happy gulag biatches.

@Novichok 6246#
No, they are mothers with kids. The kids will lern Polish as mothertongue. The mothers will be married to Polish men soon. So simple is the future.

New satellite images show fires from military strikes and growing flooding from the Irpin River. The images, taken yesterday, also show Russian artillery positions west of the Antonov Air Base northwest of Kiev. A dam along the Dnieper River was flooding the Irpin River basin and its tributaries. The Irpin River is critical to the Russian advance toward Kiev, if the Russians cannot cross it, they can't take Kiev from the west.

Oh no. Cant take Kiev? What a shame. Flooding? Melting swamp marshes? Russian tanks stuck in the mud is happening a lot quicker than I even thought. Sitting ducks for all those new stingers arriving in Kiev. Keep sending the meat and Ukraine will keep processing it. Happy gulag.

OK, I'll be honest with you: I enjoy hating on Russia. It's a national pastime, it makes me feel more Polish and enables me to better reconnect with tradition. Besides, it's just plain fun.

However, when I read something like that (from Ukrainian sources)...


menafn.com/1103888944/Ukraine-Sixty-five-civilians-already-killed-in-Russian-attacks-on-Kyiv&source=19

... then it makes me wonder. 65 people killed in Kiev so far, and it's day 27 of the invasion, which makes 2.4 civilian deaths in Kiev a day. I don't know the exact statistics but probably more people die in Warsaw every day falling off a ladder. That would suggest that Russians are not systematically killing civilians (at least not in Kiev).

As I said, hating is enjoyable, and I will by all means continue to do so, but one needs to be fair.

P.S. Interia has the same numbers...



wydarzenia.interia.pl/raporty/raport-ukraina-rosja/aktualnosci/na-zywo-wojna-w-ukrainie-27-dzien-inwazji-rosji-relacja-na-zywo,nzId,2057,akt,220548,mHash,0d95caa4106323a5159fb88418b7e192

Ah, and everything's clear now... Another anti-semitic nutcase.


I'm guessing this is this person:

fb.watch/bV3FIqu_g-/


He must be projecting and talking about Putin lol


"Discuss" may mean saying "We won't do it" and consider the source (Visegrad24).


Apparently already 2,300 people were killed in Mariupol. Kyiv may be simply in a better situation + eyes of the world are on Kyiv.

Au contraire....

The difference is explained here (why Ukraine is fighting Russia so hard)

twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1504103672019513345

same in an easier to read format:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1504103672019513345.html

Read and then address the issues raised (and refute them if you can) or give up on that lame and very false Putin talking point....

@maf, wow, thanks for that link - I had no idea that it has become so bad over there:

"East Ukrainians saw that the Russian-controlled zone turned into a nightmare with warlord gangs robbing, killing and torturing. With no protection and no security. With no employment either, because businesses were destroyed by pro-Russian warlords. You could join them or starve"

"Extremely tough Ukrainian resistance against superior Russian forces is understandable only in this context. East Ukraine doesn't believe Putin will "save" them. They saw what's happening on territories he captured and are fighting hard to avoid the same scenario on their land"

@GefreiterKania
Kiev is where the Russain's have not been able to really penetrate the city. Also a large portion of the population evacuated early. Stands to reason less civilian deaths.

I can tell you from conversations with people who were in Kherson, there were "bodies all over the streets" concerning civilians. Lviv is a very crowded place right now, and if Russia starts bombing the city, it is going to be very bad there for civilians.

That's where the heaviest fighting is going on, right? And before the war it was a 450,000 city. Don't get me wrong, all the civilian deaths are horrible and most of them can be said to constitute a war crime, which makes Putin and his cronies war criminals. No doubt. However, we are not witnessing systematic killing of civilian population, like we did in Poland in September 1939 for example.

Two days ago 1496 civilian deaths in Ukraine were reported...

statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/

... even if we assume that all out assault on Mariupol brought the number up to 3000 (doubtful) then it's still not comparable to 100,000 Polish civilians killed in one month of September campaign in 1939. And the military technic was much less deadly in 1939 - now they have all those Grad, TOS-1A, Huragans etc., so if they wanted to systematically slaughter civilians, it would be much worse.

They are mongols - yes. They are war criminals - yes. They will be considered pariahs for the next 100 years - yes. They are systmatically murdering civilian population - no.


Yes, IF Russia started bombing, it WOULD be very bad in Lviv. "If" and it "would be", so we are still in grammatical conditional sentences. Call me obstinate, but based on numbers we still cannot say that Russian army is trying to systematically kill Ukrainian civilians. The losses would be immensely greater if they did.

@GefreiterKania
I cant agree with you. 95% of the Mariupol population has left. The only people left are those without cars, money or they are old and can not travel. So, given those numbers, 2300 people would be a lot of people. Even if only 50% of the population left that would be 10% of the remaining population has been killed. No one is comparing it to Poland.

You can not compare smart missiles to dumb WWII era bombs, todays weapons can strike within a foot of where they were aimed, and take out very specific targets. WWII bombing was so inaccurate that to compare the two is simply misleading. We are also talking about 150K Russian troops spread very thinly across a huge border attacking multiple cities at one time. Not a very wise tactic. What is clear is that more Russian soldiers are dying than all Ukraine fatalities.

systematically? no prioritizing non-military targets.... oh yeah....


Depends... if you haven't notice, the Russia.n army. just. isn't. very...... good.... as it turns out 20 years of sabotage and plunder have an effect, and it's not positive....

@GefreiterKania, I never claimed that the goal of the Russian army is the genocide of the Ukrainian nation. It's hard to say what Putin's goal is at this point. They clearly don't care much about the life of civillians and in many cases they seem to be targeting civillians on purpose (like, for example, in case of humanitarian corridors from Mariupol). Not letting the civillians leave Mariupol is simply cruel and barbaric. That's all I can say for sure.

So, I'm not sure whom you're arguing with about this issue.

I think (and judging by what I've read) that by targeting civillians, blocks of flats, hospitals, schools, etc., making their lives unbearable they most likely want to terrorize the Ukrainians to such an extent that they'll surrender. They've also made some places unhabitable due to destruction. But it's hard for me to tell for sure whether it's their strategy or the sign of their frustration or it's simply "the Russian way" (+ an effect of not very precise weapons being used).

An awesome start to trading again for the ruble - a 10 percent crash which meant even more of Russian taxpayers money spent propping it up.

Still at least that is better than spending it on bombs to murder kids. I read now that even in Donetsk and Luhansk the majority want the Russians out because they have been lording it over the locals - press ganging the guys into combat, taking their food and harassing the local girls.

@cms neuf, could you post a link regarding the situation in Donetsk and Luhansk?

True. But still, Russians have classical bombs and rockets and could use them against civilians on a large scale. They aren't doing this so far.


Luckily! I bet nobody suspected just how ineffective that army would turn out to be.


I know you didn't but that's exactly what a lot of people have been claiming all over the internet, isn't it? My initial post wasn't a response to anyone, so I'm not arguing with anyone here - just making some observations.


More likely. They were prepared for a victory parade after 48-hours, not a long, difficult war.

kyivindependent.com/national/russia-throws-untrained-civilians-from-occupied-donbas-into-hot-spots-of-its-war-in-ukraine/

It's a Ukie source Paulina but all looks credible

@cms neuf, thanks for the link, it looks bad indeed...

And this:

"It also reported that Russia uses the Donetsk Metallurgical Plant to burn the corpses of Donbas residents killed in battle to hide the actual number of casualties."

Jesus...

True. But the city was besieged and shelled by rockets and artillery. Can you imagine German Wehrmacht laying a siege to a very large city for a month, and 65 civilians being killed?

It is an illegal war and war crimes are commited on a daily basis, but we are not dealing with genocide here, as many people have been claiming (not necessarily in this thread).

Btw, I'm afraid that if Russia wins this war, we will never find out how many civillians were (and are going to be) really killed:

aljazeera.com/amp/news/2005/6/26/official-chechen-wars-killed-300000

"The Russian government has not revealed any casualties among civilians in Chechnya during the two wars in the region since 1994."

@GefreiterKania
Actually, the Russian's have not gone hard with bombing inside the city limits of Kiev. For historical Russia reasons alone they have not and will not. Kiev was where the Russian people originated from. This is part of the Russian history. It is one of the reasons Putin used to justify his actions. The fighting and bombing has mostly been in the surrounding suburbs. I dont get this info from the news either, I am still talking to friends in the city who have stayed to fight while their families are in Poland. Their reports are that while there are some bombings, most of them are infrastructure targets and not housing targets though some have been hit. The suburbs though in some cases have been leveled.

Putin is walking a fine line. Killing Ukraine people to some Russians at home is like killing Russians. To destroy Kiev would be destroying part of Russian history and there would definitely be an uprising if that happened. Frankly, thats part of Putins strategic problems. There is only so much destruction he can do to a place like Kiev, or to Lviv. The rest though? He has no problem burning, and if civilians are killed he calls them Nazi's.

Look as far as I know Russian Artillery is not able to shell the city as it is outside its range.

Zombies, vampires, ghosts, demons and similar appearances from American Hollywood films do not exist. They are invented just to divert attention from a much greater evil ...


twitter.com/ArnaudMafille/status/1505621971970793473

What a collection of villains, war criminals and evil-doers.

@Crnogorac3, first of all, none of what the US was doing throughout it's history is the fault of the Ukrainian people. So stop diverting attention from the evil that Russia is doing to Ukraine and it's people.

And it isn't true that no sanctions have ever been imposed on the US:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_sanctions_against_the_United_States

If Russians want to force Kiev to surrender there is a less bloody way to do it. Cut the supply lines. Target with missiles power plants, gas hubs and power lines. No large city would be able to withstand without heat and power.

@Vlad1234
Targeting supply lines to the east and south would spread forces more thin than they are. It is a faster way to defeat for Russia. This was supposed to be over in 15 days maximum. They were not prepared for this and now it is too late. More foreign aid getting to Kiev and Lviv every day.

They don't need to send forces to do it. I think modern missiles and airstrikes are precise enough to target power lines and gas pipelines.

I think if the Russians were to do that to supply lines then Ukrainians should get missiles and planes from the west and do the same to Rostov.

It is clear now that the West need to equip the Ukrainian Air Force and start attacking Russian positions. Morale is at catastrophic levels and this will be very effective