Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades

As opposed to the breathtaking rationality of Feb 24?

Invade a country for no good reason and then become unhinged at negative reactions?


Speaking of parasitic leeches, how many Russians are fleeing the hellscape of West Europe and the US in order to return to the safe bosom of Mother Russia?

@Cojestdocholery
Why TF should the US do it on its own? Ukraine is not a member of NATO. Period. Up to the US to do more? Your mean like 13 Billion? You mean like the expedited tanks to Poland? Like another 20K troops to Poland? It is not the US that is responsible for everything. You dont like Biden visiting? Then dont ask for more US troops and weapons. You get all or nothing. Same with every other president the US has had in war times.

@Bobko
You are sitting in the US, and not going home to fight. You are nothing more than a coward who wants the best of both worlds. Eventually karma will get you. As for my thinking? Putin could have nuked already. Why not? Because he knows it is the end for him and for Russia. As for Poland being the place? You have lost your mind. It would be the end of Russia.

That's an American problem Johnny created by successive American governments. Ireland is an island and can keep tighter control of who enters. We also have our homeless and our poor but we're choosing to open our doors to the Ukrainian refugees. The government has said there will be no cap on the numbers we accept. They're expecting up to 200,000. That will mean that one in every 25 people in Ireland will be Ukrainian .

I told you why! If you don't understand Not my problem and not its own but with Poland and Ukrainie.


Ask? Have Poland got anything for free? I wouldn't ask for those dumb tanks. As for patriots you get nmoeny and keep the goods - I call that scam.

Don't get me started and stop with your cheerlear attutide. Nobbody put a gun to your head and force to be here, once you profit from it and are here you do your best not abscond.

When everything was sunny it cost you think to F about , now that S happned to need to work for it and you act like a princess - who me? Yes you! or bugger off!

No need to take my word for it. Read about US contingency plans for a nuclear exchange with Russia. Russia and the US don't shoot each other until France or Britain are being covered with tactical nukes. Poland is but the first step in the escalation game.

@Cojestdocholery
I am in USA right now, and returning. I will never move out of Poland. I am prepared to defend my home in Krakow, are you? As for my work? I am bringing USD to Poland, not taking zloty from it. You talk without knowledge.

Of course Poland pays for equipment, like every other country who buys equipment even in peace times. The US is not a social welfare program, though some treat it as such. So how about you get two batteries of Patriot missiles and we pull all the US soldiers out of Poland and you can defend yourself? Then the US is the real bad guy. Nothing in life is free, and Americans know this better than anyone. You cant go and buy a gun without paying for it, why should a country be able to buy a tank without paying?

The thought process that the US is required to do more than what they are already doing is simply nonsensical. The US does more for more countries around the world than anyone. Maybe remember that when you see a US missile taking down a Russian plane or taking out a Russian tank.

@Bobko
And Putin knows a nuke to Poland is the end of Moscow and St. Petersburg just a short time later. He wont be the one to end Russian history. He will be the one who lost Russia as we knew it, but he wont kill Russian civilization.

One in ever 8 people in the U.S. is foreign born.
Don't get me wrong my sparring partner.
Ireland has always been one of the most generous countries in the world, we all know that.
My point was that the U.S. takes in it's fair share of refugees and immigrants too.
There are approximately 44 million immigrants in the United States.
The Ukrainians aren't coming as drug gangs and violent criminals like the U.S. is getting.

@PolAmKrakow
There is not question about it! Why do you confuse issues?


What do you not understand?
It is a golden opportunity for Poland, Ukraine, whole Europe and the USA but your country is wasting that chance by Not doing more!!!


There are missiles from many counrties including Ukrainie not only US.

@Cojestdocholery
You want to take advantage of the US, like most people do. I get it. It is not the US responsibility to lead the charge into an escalation of the war. It is not a golden opportunity. I agree that NATO combined should go in, but saying the US should lead is simply stupid. Poland is wasting the chance by not rushing in, so is every other EU country. The US will go in if a NATO country is attacked, pretty simple to understand.

Missiles from other countries of course. Add up how much everyone else has given and the US beats all other combined. So shut up about not doing enough. The US always does more than everyone else.

The reason why Russia stopped talking to Ukraine for the last few years. The reason for all the Biden-Putin diplomacy at the beginning of this year. Sorry, Scholz, Macron, Johnson.

US is only party that has credibility in eyes of Russia. US is only party that can make credible guarantees. Russian and American negotiations only thing that can end this war. The warm body in Kiev is of no interest to anyone.

@Bobko
This is would somewhat agree with. If US left Europe or NATO like Trump wanted, Putin would slowly roll over Europe. I think the US is just waiting for Putin to return the phone calls. Neutrality for Ukraine, Russia keeps Crimea, and the other two "republics" restored to Ukraine, with Russians being repatriated to Russia. It is the only solution that makes sense.

Only if sanctions continue indefinitely and Russia pays reconstruction reparations. The end has to hurt Russia bad so that maybe, just maybe, the Russian government will learn it's a bad idea to invade other countries....

Keep wishing that we learn.... It may be yourself that will have to relearn some painful lessons.

You're right! Wishing for good intentions from Russia is a massive waste of time...

@mafketis
I believe that is going look like what the deal ends up being. This war wont continue for years, Putin cant afford it. Eventually Russia will even run out of bodies.

@mafketis

I like you Mafketis. I wish you would stop reading the messages of boy-wonder Kamil Galeev. Understand, the source of his hate for Russia is deeply ingrained through his personal humiliation. Even his use of a nom de guerre which is Arabic (Kazani, meaning "from Kazan"), while he should use a Turkic suffix as he is a Tatar, or just use his legal surname.

I come from a destroyed aristocratic family. I understand Mr. Galeev's bent. My family, and myself, we have learned that you can't rage against the sun and that our fates are impossible to disconnect from the fate of the land. Galeev feels he was betrayed, but now it's him that's the greater traitor. Calling everyday for the destruction of the motherland from his tenured professorship in America.

Why can't Russia harness the potential of its intelligent young people? (now fleeing in droves)

As I've asked before, why can't Russia turn its energies into something positive? It has the human capital to be an economic and cultural superpower but it's only concerned with providing it's mega-rich minority with more plunder while the serfs get nothing (though far too many young men end up with the chance to be cannon fodder).

What am I missing? Why can't Russia try to change the world for the better rather than retreat into being a military dictatorship (again)?

That's the problem with Russia. It doesn't treat it's neighbours as agents, but as objects, pawns that it can play with as it wishes. Or, at least, Russia would like to play with them as it wishes and when the West gets in the way (especially the US) Russia gets mad and takes out it's anger on those pawns like some abusive psycho.

From the news - it looks like Abramovich and Ukrainian peace negotiators got poisoned:

wsj.com/articles/roman-abramovich-and-ukrainian-peace-negotiators-suffer-symptoms-of-suspected-poisoning-11648480493

Since both Zelensky and Biden don't seem to think that Kaczyński's idea about NATO's peacekeeping mission is a good one at this point, the idea has died pretty much:

wiadomosci.wp.pl/plan-kaczynskiego-zawieszony-prezydent-zelenski-odcina-sie-od-pomyslu-prezesa-rzad-to-nie-wplynie-na-nasze-relacje-z-ukraina-6752149932379072a


Actually, we just relearned one painful, but very important lesson - Russia doesn't change! (and I don't mean that in a good way)

@mafketis

Taking your proclamations at face value I will answer you - respect comes first. We tried to integrate into the world economy, become a responsible member of the global community of nations. What waited for us in the end of this long journey? Our old friend, America. Despite all its assurances that "no one won the Cold War", we were left with a strong feeling that, in fact, somebody did lose the Cold War and it was us. America ran rampant throughout the world. Attacking Yugoslavia, knowing we were took weak to put up resistance. Putting together "Coalitions of the Willing" and invoking Article V for Afghanistan, even though it was attacks on three buildings that served as the proximate cause. You abused the trust of our interim president, Medvedev, to turn Libya into a Stone Age colony.

Every time we want to focus on ourselves, through your callous disrespect you force us to put on the fatigues.

When?


Yes. Socialism will never win an economic conflict with capitalism. That should be obvious by now.


No one can make you feel disrespected unless they disrespect yourself. No one can "force" you to put on the fatigues...

First step toward getting respect from others is to treat yourself with respect and the Russian government does not treat its citizens with respect (and knows it abuses them so feels disrespect from other countries).

@Bobko

One has to laugh at your constant threats of "learning painful lessons", using nukes or biological/chemical weapons etc. This is getting boring. Apparently you don't get that at some point people no longer give a toss. We had to live with constant threats from you, f*cking mongols, for years on end. We had to tolerate arseholes like Dugin or Zhirinovski, cherished by Kremlin, who refused Poland the very right to our existence. Now, the time for your mongol threats is over. If the nukes fly, the nukes fly. Quick death is better than living in constant threat. I'm with President Duda on this - bring it on b*tches. :)

Hey, don't like metaphors anymore? Welfare bums are "legal" AND parasites at the same time.


With that "better dead than red" bs line, you just dragged a reasonable conversation with Bobko to the bottom

Hmm. Now it's you talking like a "blind patriot".

@Novichok

Well-known psychological mechanism. If you keep threatening people for years on end, putting nuclear weapons right at the border in Królewiec, and refuse them the right to existence, then at some point they no longer give a f*ck. Simple as that.

Now wait a minute... Wasn't Russia a member of G8 up until the Crimea annexation in 2014 (when it got suspended)?


Having a power of veto at the UN Security Council? How many countries have that, you "poor thing"?


Excuse me? Putin supported American invasion of Afghanistan! lol


In order to prevent ethnic cleansing.


Noone prevents you from focusing on yourselves. The problem is that you don't want to. You clearly prefer to focus on anything and everything else. How did attack on Yugoslavia, Afghanistan or any country joining NATO or whomever is chosen in elections in other countries prevented Russia from becoming a normal, successful, prosperous, friendly, real democracy?

Please stop excessive quoting please

Damming indigtment of the german political class in politico.
"Even as allies welcome Berlin's Zeitenwende, they aren't fooled by its foxhole conversion.
Ukraine, which was pillaged by Germany during World War II, by the end of which it had lost more than 15 percent of its population, certainly won't forgive and forget.

Germany won't have any real credibility within the transatlantic alliance either (no matter how many billions it commits to spending on defense) until there's an honest reckoning with the history of the Merkel-Putin years."

politico.eu/article/putin-merkel-germany-scholz-foreign-policy-ukraine-war-invasion-nord-stream-2/

We shall see how the evaluation will look like when everything is said and done. Germany certainly underestimated Russia's thirst for agression. But it was also Ukraines' biggest financial donor only behind the USA. Minks II was imperfect but it also gave the dysfunctional and beaten Ukrainian army time to reform and regroup. Not to mention how Merkel was instrumental in pushing even the limited European response to 2015 through against Italian and Hungarian resistance and over French indifference.

@Paulina

You're gonna get a warning from the admin for excessive quoting.

Without quoting others, I'll respond in aggregate. Unless you have been living in a bunker, there is happening right now a historic decoupling of businesses from Russia. Historic. Russia integrated into the global economy in a way no other previously sanctioned economy has. It's simply in a different league. You can take examples like automobile manufacturing, construction materials, household consumer goods, etc. Make no mistake, the pain is acute, but it will necessarily lessen with the passage of time.

The blockade is not complete. Something like 60% of countries by global population have not joined sanctions. This is what numbers like 141 countries out of 200 in UN condemning Russia can obscure for the casual observer.

Whether people like it or not, Russia has triggered a historic reconfiguring of the global economy. Your current advantage in chips, lithography equipment, airliners, extraction equipment for mining and drilling won't persist as long after these events.

@Bobko

Soft power, among other things, of some country depend on wealth. I understand why western Europe and USA hate Russia now. To deprive them of cheap wealth is biggest sin. Plus, Russia to transfer that wealth to itself and straighten its own soft power is even biggest sin so they hate Russia on the double.

See, this was that Old World Order where Slavs and other subjugated peoples of this Earth financed their own overlords on the west of Europe and USA. Its over now. No more.

@Bobko, why, are you going to report me for "excessive quoting"? :D
Sorry to the mods, but I simply have no time to write essays - quoting is simpler and faster for me.


So, in other words, you're not going to respond to the points I raised?


So why did you claim just an hour ago that somehow the bad US prevented Russia from integrating into the world economy?


Because, thank God, you did lose. The West simply didn't want to hurt your feelings. I wonder now whether they weren't too nice for you, because you clearly didn't learn anything from that lesson in history.