Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades

Boys and girls, today we will learn the meaning of "staged" and "propaganda". This is just one example.

You shoot a guy you don't like in the head using Russian ammo and bury his body. Later you "discover" that body. For that extra effect, you tie his hands behind his back and take pictures for the world to see.

Some of them will show the ties be pristine white. Oh fu*ck! How do you explain THAT considering that the body was buried for days. But, since the world is mostly emotional imbeciles predisposed to hating Russia anyway, you just ignore some of those details - including the one that tying hands of a guy whose life will end in seconds makes very little sense.

You see, dear children, Russians are known for many things. Carrying pure white fabric just in case they need to shoot some poor sucker with an AK and no uniform is not one of them.

I was just reading an article by an Irish journalist on the Bucha killings and as he says if Russian claims that it's all staged are to be believed "it is a 'production of stunning detail, complexity and execution".

For example the 75-year-old mother of Tetiana Pomazarko described to The New York Times how her daughter was shot dead by gunfire from a Russian tank in the front garden of her home. No doubt Tetiana's mother is an accomplished actress.

The sobbing of an elderly woman who told of how she finally found her husband's body in a basement, mutilated and shot was very convincing I must say.

Hanna Herega said she saw a man gathering wood being shot by Russian troops: "Then they shot off his left leg completely, with the boot. Then they shot him all over this side [on the chest]. And another shot went slightly below the temple." No doubt another professional actress hired to improvise a fake story about a random dead body.

The BBC's Jeremy Bowen spoke to Iryna Kostenko whose only son was shot. Using a wheelbarrow, she took Oleksiy's body back to their own garden and buried him. She is also a professional actress of course.

Amazing how many professional actors and actresses live in Bucha - and they look just like ordinary provincial people. Some of them even have missing teeth - oh hang on, they just blacked them out with paper of course to look the part for the visiting journalists.

Russia certainly is a master at both. Look at all the practice they've had! Absolute champions in the field of deception and you are their disciple!

I agree with: ohchr.org/en/statements-and-speeches/2022/04/comment-un-high-commissioner-human-rights-michelle-bachelet-bodies

Comment by UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet on bodies in town of Bucha in Ukraine

This is what Michelle said in its entirety:

I am horrified by the images of civilians lying dead on the streets and in improvised graves in the town of Bucha in Ukraine.

Reports emerging from this and other areas raise serious and disturbing questions about possible war crimes as well as grave breaches of international humanitarian law and serious violations of international human rights law.

It is essential that all bodies are exhumed and identified so that victims' families can be informed, and the exact causes of death established. All measures should be taken to preserve evidence.

It is vital that all efforts are made to ensure there are independent and effective investigations into what happened in Bucha to ensure truth, justice and accountability, as well as reparations and remedy for victims and their families.

ENDS

I highlighted the most relevant to me parts.

BTW, that's how lawyers talk and the dumb and sloppy PF posters don't.

For $100, what word is conspicuously missing from that text?

Video from several days ago - before Bucha massacre was discovered - I found it on another forum, posted on 29th March.

files.catbox.moe/juxmpi.mp4

It looks like Ukrainian troops are shooting prisoners. Ukrainians are to conduct investigation into this.

bild.de/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/horror-video-ukraine-untersucht-moegliches-eigenes-kriegsverbrechen-79590778.bild.html###wt_ref=https%3A%2F%2Fgoogle.com%2F&wt_t=1648503960520

No you don't - because you've already stated that the killings are staged which would make an investigation unnecessary. So you don't agree at all with what Michelle Bachelet said.


That's right. It was reported by Human Rights Watch and indeed the Ukrainian government, instead of denying it, stated that it should be investigated as indeed it should because you can't have an army that carries out random executions. An army without discipline is not an army at all, it's just rabble.

Exactly.

Guys on the other forum said that Ukrainian soldiers in the video were from Azov, which will only add fuel to Russian hatred of this formation and propaganda portraying Ukrainians as nazis. Idiotic and criminal conduct, if confirmed.

You are beyond repair. I never said any such thing.

I know quite well what you said. If one takes a dead body and presents it as the victim of a Russian attack, one is staging 'a killing by a Russian'. You're actually out of step with the Russian authorities there Novi because they actually say that the bodies are not dead at all but are pretending. The actual wording of the denial issued by the Russian ministry of defence has been published in their press release and broadcast on some silly old state Telegram channel.

Let's look at what Human Rights Watch said after it was reviewed by their lawyers, not PF girlie men and housewives. Quoting:

These include a case of repeated rape; two cases of summary execution, one of six men, the other of one man; and other cases of unlawful violence and threats against civilians between February 27 and March 14, 2022. Soldiers were also implicated in looting civilian property, including food, clothing, and firewood.

Except for that firewood, it's like a slow day in Chicago if you replace "soldiers" with black thugs. And then this:

Those who carried out these abuses are responsible for war crimes.

Very good, HRW!!! Not "Russians". Not "Russia". Simply: "those who carried out these abuses..." I am so proud of you, my dear HRW.

Because there is currently no evidence that those crimes have been ordered or tolerated by the Russian leadership. If such evidence surfaces, then this evaluation will also change.

Mine was just an example to illustrate the meaning of "staged" and "propaganda". I could have added "reasonable doubt" but considering the audience here I dropped it. If you want to infer more, be my guest, as they say.


Tacitus - the PF house lawyer. I am proud of you. Don't forget to subpoena and depose Putin.


I guess nobody wants to take a stab at it.

What's missing from the UN Michelle's mercifully short statement is the word...drum roll...Russia.
Good girl! Good lawyers!

We all know you're good at lying. No need to keep repeating the fact.


Yeltsin had nothing to do for it, Anatoly Chubais wanted a neo-Tsar figure to protect the oligarchs from the public (widely known process). Recently Chubais has decided the neo-tsar's Russia is no longer to his liking and fled the chicken coop....

He is genius of stupidity after all.


you are not a lawyer and you never will be, you are a dumbass playing a smartass on a forum. Is that all you got? lol! Silly 'semantics' is that works for you?

The fact your family and people you know are stupider than you is sad but not suprising.

May 9, 2023 - some countries have finally agreed to pay for gas in rubles. Payments have to be made in cash, as Russia is totally cut off from any banking system. Here's a photo of Serbian truck, transporting payment of $10,000 in rubles to Russia...

Things are starting to heat up for WW3.
Finland Prime Minister Sanna Marin said Saturday that the country will make a decision on applying for NATO membership by the end of spring, because "Russia is not the neighbor we thought it was."

Russian officials have warned of potential retaliation, in the form of military and political consequences, should Finland and Sweden join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

Attack on Ukraine has nothing to do with NATO. The West many times repeated it does not want Ukraine in NATO. Germany didn't want it, France didn't want it, Hungary didn't want it. Each country could veto Ukraine's application. There was nothing for Russia to fear from Ukraine.

There was however something Putin and his clique could be afraid - that Western oriented Ukraine would become more democratic, lawful, prosperous. An example that Eastern Europeans don't have to live under a brutal authocracy.

This war is not about defending Russia. NATO is already bordering it via Baltic States, so the 'buffer theory' is obviously false. This war is about defending Putin's regime. That's why Ukrainians are dying - so that Putin can rule and fill his pockets much, much longer.

I could easily detect the poster's gender from what was in it; sob stories and touchy-feely female crap.

In the meantime, behind the Kremlin gates, the adults are standing in front of a very big map. On it are many red dots and 2022. Next to it - another map with fewer dots, further out, and 1990. Hmm...Not good...

Would you like to call them and tell them one of your very sad stories? They might be so touched that not only they will send the boys home but may even decide to give up Crimea and blow that bridge up as an apology.


You are a true genius. A man who is president for life and scores 70 to 80% approval votes does not need to be defended. Only a man who is under attack has to be defended. Hmm...Who and what would like to attack Putin and his "regime"...Let me think...I will be back when I come up with something...

Spot on.
Excellent post, Korvinus

Amen people its all about new financial system of the world and competition of world powers. World of global civilizations rising.

:-D Are you baiting me to start a rant?

Jesus...
But yes... I can believe it... Not because of what happened in Bucha, but after reading about what followed in Russian media:

wiadomosci.wp.pl/zbrodnia-w-buczy-to-poczatek-rosjanie-pisza-wprost-co-chca-zrobic-zwyklym-ukraincom-6754606166600192a

My translation of a fragment of the Polish article I linked to above:

"The war crime in Bucha is just the beginning. Russians write openly what they want to do to ordinary Ukrainians.

'The societal swamp has to experience atrocities of war to learn a history lesson and atone for supporting Nazis.' - such comment was released by Russian state news agency Ria Novosti. The author is calling for a liquidation of all Ukrainians who took up arms. The civillians are called "passive Nazis" for whom forced labour camps should be built where they would be reeducated for the next 30 years. The propaganda talking about "de-Nazifying Ukraine" is intensifying in Russian media.

'I doubt that those atrocities are just war excesses. I'm afraid that the worse is yet to come.' - wrote Grigory Yudin, one of the opponents of war in Ukraine (he was beaten unconcious at one of the anti-war protests), after the war crime in Bucha was revealed. He's suggesting that the massacre of 350 civillians in Russian occupied Bucha is the first episode of systemic extermination of anyone who supports independent Ukraine.

Further war crimes may come to light in, for example, besieged Mariupol, where escaping civillians were put into filtration camps.

Insanity in Russian media. They are calling for a "cleansing".

Grigory Yudin is pointing out a new theme in Russian narration, which appeared after the war crime in Bucha. Kremlin propagandists claim that since Ukrainians are resisting by not wanting to get liberated, it means that not only Ukrainian authorities, but also ordinary people are soaked with 'Nazism'.

Margarita Simonyan, editor-in-chief of English speaking news channel Russia Today, said: 'now liberation means cleansing.' - We underestimated how deeply Nazism got ingrained into the Ukrainian society. - she added."

I have a question to people from the West - do Western media report what's going on in Russian media right now? I mean this insane and scary change in rhetoric...

Pineapple! I win! You owe me $100!!!!!!

@Paulina

It is all absolutely nuts.

I had a thought today.

Many European nations have behaved like barbarians in the last 100 years or so.
But I think mainly of Germans,Serbs and Russians.
The Germans and Serbs behaved like animals for a few years and then stopped.
But Russians have behaved like animals for century's.
What is in their psyche to make them like that?
I don't excuse the Serbs either.
They seem to have the same mentality as Russians and could become uncivilized brutes at any time too.

Why?

What's up is that Russia is an impoverished country fighting another impoverished country. This is Russia's power without nukes.

Russia struggled and almost lost against a single microstate within its own borders. It took the Russian army two decades to deal with Chechnya. Nothing has changed over there since the 00s and some things may have gotten even worse.

Russia is a regional power easily kept in check by smaller countries like Turkey and Poland. The only thing special about them are their nukes and ICBMs.

I'm increasingly inclined to think we should just say 'fu*ck it' and actually intervene directly. If we're afraid of MAD so is Putin, and the responsibility will rest entirely on him since NATO doesn't even need nukes to kick him out of Ukraine. I don't think he's willing to risk a nuke dropped above his presidential palace for the sake of Donbass. I'm not even sure his commanders would obey him and carry out the launches even if he did push the red button, because they sure as fu*ck don't want to die for Putin's Napoleon complex.

I think it's at least partly because of the way they have been treated by their authorities/rulers for centuries... They have to take it out on someone... preferably weaker than them... It's like with a school bully - he's treating other (smaller, weaker) kids at school badly, because he's been treated badly at home. I think Russians are a deeply damaged nation... in all kinds of ways...

Some fragments from an article in Daily Mail:

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10684331/Emotional-Zelensky-says-finds-difficult-talk-surveys-carnage-Bucha.html

A mass grave containing the bodies of at least 20 civilians including a mayor and her family were uncovered in woodland near the town of Motzyhn, around 20 miles west of Bucha where another mass grave has been found.

The pit contains the bodies of local mayor Olga Sukhenko who was buried along with her husband and son, according to Ukraine's former ambassador to Austria Olexander Scherba.

Ms Sukhenko's body had been rolled into the hastily-dug pit alongside at least 19 others including families, some of whom showed signs of torture. Sukhenko was found with her fingers and arms broken, according to the mayor of the nearby town of Kopyliv, while a resident of Motyzhyn said Russian soldiers killed any Ukrainian officials who refused to collaborate.

The mayor and her family had been reported by others as kidnapped by Russians on March 23 and taken in an unknown direction.

It is the second mass grave to be uncovered behind the backs of retreating Russian troops, after a 45ft pit containing the bodies of at least 57 civilians was uncovered in Bucha - a city on the outskirts of Kyiv where hundreds of civilians have been found dead.

(...)

And now the important part:

"Satellite images taken on March 31, while Russian troops were still in control of the area, clearly show the existence of the grave- giving proof to the lie peddled by Moscow that it was dug by Ukrainian forces. Satellite firm Maxar said images taken as far back as March 10 show what appear to be preparations to construct the pit."

Simple rule of thumb:

The more convoluted and byzantine the Russian response is to accusations of war crimes the more likely it is they're true.

For this forum, the more the usual suspects try to fog the sky the more they're admitting the charges are true.

twitter.com/VladVexler/status/1510983001882169346

@Korvinus

Great post!


I share that thought, despite the risks it entails.


There certainly seems to be an element of that.
But I still find their behaviour incomprehensible.
Russians want to be seen as Europeans but they just don't think or behave like we do.
They are more like wild animals.
The Serbs are like them too.
I see now why Serbs love the Russians so much.
Wild apes like each other.But they fight amongst each other too.

" Russians want to be seen as Europeans but they just don't think or behave like we do."

wrong youre just a racist and narionalist like all polqks russians and east euros. fact is none of you are like real westerners like me or cslifornians or woke europeans. if youre not promlgtb or woke or white women ebing with foreign dark men youre not even european.

btw ur also a moron if u think the russians are moreruthless than germans. i knew some germans back in my youth in clai in claremont high shcool who were proud of it and would argue with you over this fact.

You are a true genius. A man who is president for life and scores 70 to 80% approval votes does not need to be defended. Only a man who is under attack has to be defended. Hmm...Who and what would like to attack Putin and his "regime"...Let me think...I will be back when I come up with something...