Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades

No, moron, Germany needs to do what's best for Germany. Two ex-republics killing each other is nobody's war but their own.


Said the PF military genius and strategist. Hey, genius, Russia is not leaving - "heavy weapons" or not.

From now on, Z is a cold-blooded murderer of his own people and a Western puppet, not a hero or Churchill 2.0.

Said the apologist for genocide and cheerleader for those committing war crimes.


Your denunciation is actually a great endorsement for Zelenski in the minds of the sane.

This is rather unlikely. You can't go too hard on a nuclear superpower. This is not early WW2; nukes changed everything. The most likely scenario is that after a bloody fight in Donbass and marginal Russian victory an agreement between Ukraine and Russia is signed: Russia gets Crimea together with a sizeable corridor to it along the Black Sea coast, as well as a huge chunk of eastern Ukraine.

What such, most likely, scenario would mean for those interested? Let's see...

1. Russia: they achieve limited success, which allows them to terminate their "special operation", get out of it with face (although "face" is a debatable term considering what they did in Bucha and other places) and avoid total military and economic disaster. EU/US sanctions continue but they are partly made up for by increased cooperation with China. Russia becomes a de facto Chinese vassal, but nobody in Russia knows about it - the propaganda sells people a huge victory, there are some territorial gains, one can again buy sugar and bread without queuing for hours; in short - "победа!", "uurrraaa!" etc. etc. So, a win (kinda).

2. Ukraine: They lose some territory, but the slaughter of their civilian population stops and with western help they begin to rebuild their country. They have to declare military neutrality, so no NATO for them, but they will be accepted into the EU, and the smaller Ukraine slowly but surely starts going the Polish way and becomes a relatively stable and successful country. So, a win.

3. Poland: most of Ukrainians stay in our country, strengthening our job market and demographics. Polish army increases in number to 300,000 and is equipped with the best (mostly American) weapons. It costs sh*tloads of money, but hey - there's no price too high for safety, right? In the east we have an independent Ukraine which is constantly hostile towards Russia with a huge grudge to bear for another 100 years or so; not so weak as to become an easy prey for Russia and not too strong to become a threat to Poland. So, a win.

4. NATO: it is revived and strengthened by the "great come back" of the old enemy. All member countries spend at least 2% of their GDP on defence, and we welcome two new members: Finland and Sweden. So, a win.

5. The EU: the ban on Russian oil and gas speeds up the transition to green renewable sources of energy and the Union in general comes out strengthened and more united from the conflict. We welcome new members: Ukraine, Norway, Moldova, Bosnia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Macedonia, Albania, Iceland and, after much bit*ching and pouting the UK again, creating a fully united continent - one of huge superpowers in the new multipolar world. So, a win.

6. China: they are allowed to take Taiwan (of course after much bit*ching and pouting from the West to keep up appearances) and gain a new vassal in the north. Their potential increases even more and they become one of the huge superpowers in the new multipolar world. So, a win.

7. Serbia: after a deal between Russia and Ukraine is signed Serbia says it's a scandal and demands that Russia continues the "denazification" of Ukraine until the end. After Russia refuses Serbia breaks all diplomatic ties with them, as well as with the US and the EU. People take to the streets to protest and the government collapses. Vojvodina goes back to Hungary, Partizan Belgrade is relegared to 2nd division, and Crow emigrates to Germany. So, a loss.

Imagine it's a day before the capitulation. Here is a short conversation between Mr. Stupid and Mr. Reason. The place: Warsaw, Poland.

Mr. Reason: Guys, the probability we will win is zero. The probability that the Germans will win this is 100%. We lost 100,000 people and will lose another 100,000 if we continue. Therefore, I say we should surrender or we all will soon be dead and the city uninhabitable.

Mr. Stupid: Hey, Reason, you are a Hitler-loving ass-kissing pos! You should be ashamed!
BTW, what is "probability"? Can we get some of this stuff from the Germans?

That's the level on this website today.


Another a-hole in action...Show me one post where I was "cheerleading" for war crimes? BTW, look up "cheerleading" and "explaining" before you say something equally stupid again. You forgot that you called me Surrender Stasio. Duh! Don't bother with the Holocaust argument.

Put Serbia under number 1. We are born winners. Right at this moment Serbia negotiate with France and Britain to buy their warplanes. 24 Rafale and 12 Typhoon.



12



24


No, they are wise. If they betray this time and try that, entire Hungary goes back to Serbia.

Buuuut.....the Germans lost in the end.....

@Gefreiter Kania

The same to your smart foresight (I could go with all of it besides China...they have to be stopped at some time also)....how about Ukraine only ONE BATTLE in Russia's re-empirializing? What if they don't stop with getting some ukrainian corridor and Crimea?

Isn't the european experience rather that a predator won't stop after a win? Even if only "kinda"?

Why bother if a 14-year-old kid with a Stinger can take it down?

The point is that in my scenario Russia stops being a predator after the deal with Ukraine. They will achieve enough for their propaganda to sell a "victory" to their population, but practically will lose any capacity for independent action. They will become a de facto Chinese vassal and won't be able to do anything without the permission of their slanted-eyed overlords (something they have already experienced in their history, but this time the slanted-eyed overlords will be much more powerful than the last time).


Oh, yes - in the long run - definitely. Short-term, however, they will become more powerful and gain a new vassal (with access to their natural resources). They will be a truly formidable enemy in the years to come.

That would mean Putin acts rational and reasoned (for an imperial dictator)....but my guess since the invasion in Ukraine is that he just lost it! *shrugs*

We will see.....

But not because of Polish resistance in 1939. If the Germans were greeted with flowers and chocolates and that idiotic Warsaw Uprising never happened, the final outcome would be exactly the same.


And that's why the Western morons feed that enemy - day after day...


Are you back to Putin not taking his pills? So, it's not NATO and Minsk agreement. It's Putin's meds. Sure.

Many people say Hitler wasn't quite rational and reasoned either anymore as he ordered "Barbarossa".

Imagine for a moment a sane Hitler, stopping after getting all german lands back plus some extras, keeping to the german-russian treaty.....Poland first occupied and then without resistance ceasing to exist....what now?

Would Mr. Reason still call for showing the belly? Even if that means the end for Poland?

I wouldn't call starting a war that will cause his country to cease being an independent superpower and relegates them to the position of a Chinese vassal "rational and reasoned", and that's exactly where this is going for Russia.


Right. Not "grab a popcorn and see", because this war is too dreadful for such approach, but in the end this is going in the right direction for NATO/EU/Poland/Ukraine. Not so much for Russia, despite their very probable ostensible victory.

That's the end for Putin....I KNOW that....hence my judgement that he lost it. The rational Putin from earlier times wouldn't had done that!

Can you summarize it in one recommendation for Mr. Reasom? He was very specific about what to do in October 1939 and saved 100,000 lives and the city.

Yeah.....but in your situation you use what had happened because people didn't surrender, resisted, fighted Hitler and the german armies....so in the end Germany lost!

Poland survived....with great sacrifices and not entirely free...but it survived as a country and as a people....and more importantly with it's soul intact!

In a Europe where everybody only would have wanted to save itself Hitler would had won easily....and Poland would have ceased to exist! For a long time, maybe forever!

I find Mr. Reason a tad shortsighted (he couldn't have known that Hitler-Germany would lose)....and abit unfair....easy way out for Poles but not for others?

I have no recommendation for Mr. Reason in that situation...only that Poles even today are and can be proud of their brave ancestors...and that it could have been alot worse...even with or because of their surrendering!

My best guess is that, as a Russian patriot, Putin intensely dislikes the slithering snake, New Global Order, and Jew-driven Western moral rot with fag rights leading the parade of the perverts. Russia can't be bribed with trinkets the way Poland is.

Well...when that is over we (the West) will have to rethink the whole concept of Globalization too....

Especially in Germany....what a mess that has become!

@Novichok
You are really the least intelligent person on PF. You have zero tactical thinking, and do not understand anything that resembles patriotism. You are a coward, and a traitor. What's best for Germany is a free Ukraine. It is what is also best for the EU and the rest of the free world. Go sit in a corner with your dunce cap now.

There will not be a deal with Russia other than allowing them to keep Crimea. Going heavy should happen for one simple reason. Putin is not about to use a nuke and completely end Russia's economic existence for the next 50 years. A nuke, even a small one is the end of Russia internationally everywhere. That isolation leaves Russia more open as a target to China, and China is watching.

All you Russian trolls and POS are so desperate for a win, that you cant even see Russia and Putin have already lost. Kiev stands, Kharkow stands. Russians are so desperate they can not even get organized. The Russian military is a joke. Russia can never pull off a victory in Ukraine, too many dead bodies, and too many dead tanks laying around for everyone to see. Russian propaganda all based on lies that are not even partially based in truth. You little Putin worshipers picked the wrong guy. He is a paper tiger, a dog who is past his prime and cant beat a younger smaller dog.

Yes, Mr Reason sounds strangely like an 80-year-old retired electric engineer, with no will to fight and strong propensity to surrender. I wonder why :)

In any case, Novichok doesn't seem to realise that Poland never officially surrendered to Third Reich. The army units capitulated in 1939 but Poland as a country didn't surrender and remained formally at war with Germany from 1939 to 1955. Yes - that is not a typo - on 18th February 1955, state council of People's Republic of Poland decided to consider the end of the state of war between Poland and Germany. Formally, the border conflict (and some claim de facto state of war/cease fire) between Poland and Germany ended on 14th November 1990 when Germany finally recognised new Polish borders (without legal ambiguities of 7th December 1970 treaty). That's how long the war between Poland and Germany lasted.

repozytorium.ka.edu.pl/bitstream/handle/11315/29579/STOLARCZYK_Reparacje_wojenne_dla_Polski_2020.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

No, I called you Surrender Stasiek (much better sounding). Maybe you'd prefer Moscow Rose? Lord Wa-Wa?

WWII has no real relavance to the current situation.

What's your basis for thinking that surrender would have been the better option for Ukraine since evidence strongly points to Russian intentions for committing mass murder anyway?

The problem with that scenario is points one and two. A lot easier said than done.


You really don't seem to know much about Russia. It's a positive cess pool of promiscuity and perversion - and has been well known for it for aeons.

And he didn't care on October 5, 1939. Mr. Reason didn't have the luxury of planning the world. He had to decide whether to continue losing 1000 people a day or stop the bloodshed. Easy call if you (editorial) have brains.


That war was won by the mega armies and the mega-events like Stalingrad, Kursk, and Normandy, not by the "people". The people who were stupid enough to shoot drunk Germans were the criminals, not heroes, and didn't give a fu*ck that the next day a village would be executed. Like Lidice.

That assissination didn't make WW2 one second shorter but it sure ended many lives. The reward: they made a movie about it. Z is writing his script.

Imagine we would go all russian and suddenly want it back!!!

*shudders*

... and Polish army back then was still 460,000 strong. *shudders*

Something tells me that we went for the better scenario!

Wow! What a colossal difference. OK, like a guy is dead and decomposing but his death certificate has not yet been printed. That means he is officially not dead. Right? You are a true genius.


But it's their promiscuity and perversion, not from the NGOs, Soros, and Western gay "activists".

Much better! 🙂

@Novichok
You must really have some demons you are battling. So many of your points have to include things about gays, or fags or jews. Are you sure you are not a closet gay or part jew, or both?

Better to fight and die than to let the enemy into your house and get killed without a fight. This is something pu$$ies just never understand. Lay down your arms and let them roll in, I am sure they wont rape, pillage and kill while rolling thought. Fing idiot!

Infinitely better!

As for Rich, he should probably read up about Generalplan Ost as to why surrender was a safer option for the French than the Polish people.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

Poland ended up losing 20% of its' population. The plan if fully implemented intented the genocide of 50-75% of the Polish population (and the reduction of the survivors to serfs).

A nice intro to your next book but too long for a bumper sticker.
Z will be very safe in London, not dead in Kyiv if the war gets too hot for him.


So fighting to the last Pole would be a moronic idea. I think I said that more than once.

The problem with Mr. Stupid is that he only thinks he matters. He not only does not but causes others to pay for his stupidity aka bravery.

Then, in all fairness to the Ukrainian stupid, they fight for their homeland and are not likely to analyze the pros and the cons plus consequences. At some point, humans act only on instincts.

It's the other kind of stupid - the foreign volunteers - that makes you wonder if sanity went out of style lately.