Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades

Seems to be true....hmmm.....

They shouldn't have done that!

What risk, at the speed those hypersonic travel in space, they will burn up on re-entry of the earth's atmosphere before they get to earth.

By then Putin and his family will have met their Maker.

Don't talk as if you were in controll silme! Who cares what you want to talk about! Get lost!

OK, I got it. Let's tell Putin to chill out until NATO is in Novovolkovo.

If they succees to fool you once - shame on them.
If they succeed to fool you twice - shame on you.

So, stop carping, Russia is doing what should be done years ago. Ukraine had allowed a lot of time to build more or less prospering nation - but it become US/NATO puppet instead, sh*thole without sovereignty, with a lot of nuclear materials and ex-Soviet missile tech on hand and banderists in power. Does Poland want to get another Volyn Massacre? We already got Donbass Massacre.

@Crnogorac3
If this is all about NATO expansion, why would Putin suggest Russia be admitted not too long ago? This is nothing but classic Russian paranoia, you whole country needs psychiatric help and has needed it for over 100 years.

@Novichok
The best you can come up with is FOAH? Maybe you are not 80, maybe you are just some pimple faced teenage kid living in mommies basement. In that case, you really need to learn how to speak to adults when they are having adult conversations or you should be getting your a$$ kicked. Oh how we need to have mercy on those with low intelligence.

As for another massacre, you talk tough for someone who likely would never even get in a street fight. Velund, you are just another Russian punk. I would love to run into you or people like you in the street and see how tough you really are. Not once has a Russian ever been tough in person when confronted in my life, they all back down, they all act like pu$$ies when faced with physicial confrontation. A lot of bark and no bite. All of these Russian soldiers getting slaughtered now because the real bas a$$ is hiding in the Kremlin. Yes, he is so tough of a leader, yet he hides.

@Velund

Libya was legal, UN sanctioned, Russia did not oppose.

Iraq was legal, remember Iraq invaded Kuwait (the back drop of that invasion has a lot of similarities with the current Russian invasion of Ukraine--Iraq said that Kuwait and Iraq are basically one), the UN sanctioned military intervention, after Iraq was defeated Saddam continually violated the agreements that brought end to war.

Yugolsavia, that was not sanctioned and many deem illegal, but it's a specious analogy to today. NATO didn't intervene when Yugoslavia was in the throes of peace, but because of a perceived humanitarian crisis.

I may not agree with any of the above military actions, but they are not analogies to what is going on today. The only function they serve is to somehow provide credence to Russian paranoia.


Velund is correct about that, Beebs. Although it was never put onto a legal document, there was an agreement that NATO wouldn't jump Germany. It is a legitimate Russian grievance, but in no way, shape, or form does it justify Russia invading Ukraine. To think it does is paranoid lunacy.

@Weisswurst Boy

msn.com/de-de/nachrichten/politik/was-diese-notiz-%C3%BCber-die-nato-osterweiterung-tats%C3%A4chlich-bedeutet/ar-AAU2Top?li=BBqg6Q9

NATO didn't have any bases east of Germany until 2016 as per an official 1997 agreement with Russia - the NATO presence in Poland and the Baltic states dates from after Russian annexation of Crimea

"Bratwurst" please!

"Weisswurst" would make me a Bavarian....and I'm staunchly, proudly PRUSSIAN....so...please...


That is the problem....no legal, binding document.....democratic leaders change and forget what say once said privately.....I never even heard about that....

Well Yeah - ha.
The Rubal isn't even worth one U.S. penny right now, the banks have run out of cash and the whole world has turned against Russia.

Tell us Veland, how many thousands of Rubal's does it cost for a loaf of bread in Russia right now ?
And what is the sentiment of all those body bags of young Russian boys coming home or is that not put on Russian t.v. ?

Please quote the article in the 2+4 treaty which include this promise. The Soviets made sure in the negotiations that any eventuality was written down, including the treatment of Soviet graveyards in Germany. Surely they would have done the same with such an important promise?

The paper you quoted is completely irrelevant. The people mentioned there were in no position to make such promises. This would have been the role of those leading the governments. Government officials talk about a lot of stuff, official agreements between governments are what is important.


Sure, but do not expect anything when you appeal to his common sense or consciousness.

Thousands of victims during 8 years - does it justify invasion to stop all this madness?
Putin waited probably too long, and started to act offensive after getting some intelligence about highly possible grave attack to DNR/LNR.

According to the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, as of June 30, 2021, between 13,200 and 13,400 people were victims of the conflict in Ukraine (3,375 of them civilians, about 4,150 Ukrainian military and about 5,700 DNR/LNR militia).

This is still continues. While Lugansk is more or less safe now, Donetsk and villages in suburbs is still shelled by nazi batallions from heavily fortified positions (already encircled, but there was LOTS of shells delivered to positions, prepared for alleged Dresden style attack, intel of which forced Putin to act). And there is civilians held captive nearby, as hostages, so heavy weapons cannot be used.

@gumishu

The agreement wasn't about bases, thought. But not expanding NATO membership east of Germany.

Of course not. Russia is the only reason why those people died, since it is behind the sham seperatist movement.

@AntV

what follows is an excerpt from the official NATO website:

Fact: NATO fully abides by the NATO-Russia Founding Act. In response to Russia's illegal and illegitimate annexation of Crimea and military build-up close to Alliance borders, NATO has deployed four multinational battlegroups - around 4,500 troops - to Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Poland.

These forces are rotational, defensive and well below any reasonable definition of "substantial combat forces." There has been no permanent stationing of substantial combat forces on the territory of eastern Allies. In fact, total force levels across the Alliance have substantially reduced since the end of the Cold War.

By signing the NATO-Russia Founding Act, Russia pledged not to threaten or use force against NATO Allies and any other state. It has broken this commitment, with the illegal and illegitimate annexation of Crimea, the territory of a sovereign state. Russia also continues to support militants in eastern Ukraine.

The madness would've stopped by withdrawing Russian operatives from those regions. It would never had started without the Putin's intervention.

@Tacitus

I've read several reports by professionals who have studied this and nearly all agree that there were assurances given to Russia by the West. Regardless, it does not justify today's Russian aggression--that cannot be stated enough.

I think sham separatist movement in former British north-american colonies, that was backed by Russia between others, have no more right to self-determine as people of DNR/LNR and Crimea.

But we are able to correct mistake of Katherine the Great now, if absolutely necessary, in a couple of centuries land will be again usable for native Americans.


Another (more real) variant - Poland and Baltic countries surrender their NATO membership and return everything to 1997 conditions.

@gumishu

Yeah, but that's something different than the verbal assurances at time of Soviet Union coming down.

a qoute from a newspaper on NATO-Russia founding act

However, it is also true that Russia willingly accepted NATO's expansion when NATO changed its stance. In 1997, when Poland, Czech Republic and Hungary joined NATO, NATO and Russia signed a "Founding Act" in which Russia accepted NATO's enlargement

dailyexcelsior.com/background-of-russia-ukraine-aggression/#:~:text=However%2C%20it%20is%20also%20true%20that%20Russia%20willingly,%E2%80%9CFounding%20Act%E2%80%9D%20in%20which%20Russia%20accepted%20NATO%E2%80%99s%20enlargement.

It is indeed true that NATO assured Russia it would not expand, and even cut down its armed forces and defence spending significantly after the end of the cold war. However, it is also true that Russia willingly accepted NATO's expansion when NATO changed its stance. In 1997, when Poland, Czech Republic and Hungary joined NATO, NATO and Russia signed a "Founding Act" in which Russia accepted NATO's enlargement. In exchange, NATO ruled out deployment of substantial combat troops and nuclear weapons in eastern Europe, a constraint it observes to this day. The US also withdrew huge number of troops and European nations shrank their armed forces dramatically.

Hmmm...interesting! Something to learn more about.

Now that is interesting.....who sat 1997 in the Kremlin?

Yeltsin, but if we are to believe the caricatures he was drunk and confused at the time (kind of like how I feel reading some of these posts). So, I guess Putin was running the place back then too.

Oh well...

it was still Yeltsin back then

Are you aware that those hypersonic missiles were first developed by the United States of America back in the early 1990's ?
We scrapped the idea before we even built one and have had thirty years to develop something much more effective.

Germany totally did.....shrinking our forces to nearly nothing!

Oh, so it's not about the unification and protection of Russian people, ie Donbas, but ridding former Warsaw pact countries from ties to the West?

So that Russia can invade anytime it wants? I think Russia has invaded Poland enough for the time being...

Let me see if I can do pawian well enough...hahahahahahahahahahaha...without inhaling...hahahahahahahahaha...


...and got away with it. As an honorary German citizen and patriot, I say that was so totally brilliant. Why spend money when you have a dumb cop working for you for free. Since I pay that cop's salary, I am slightly pis*ed off only at the cop. There is no sarcasm in what I just wrote.

BTW, how do you like my Canada and Cuba analogy...I wonder what the US would do if Russia started bringing their best toys there...Hmm...