Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 2

Fair enough, comp away. ;) . Aljazeera reports that Ukraine is storing thousands of russian soldier corpses in refrigerated roalroad cars and russia is refusing to take them back.

I have the right to get it, but will not apply. I do not think that ukrainian statehood will last long.


It can be true only in complete isolation from outer world. When almost half of russian population have relatives in Ukraine, there is no such thing as "strictly internal affair of Ukraine". Especially when significant part of "political elite" is ukrainian only by citizenship in freshly issued passports.

So, while Poland can pretend to have special ties with Galicia, Russia can pretend to have special ties to eastern and southern Ukraine. And attempt to push out russian-speaking population from russian lands that by handed by Lenin to newly created ukrainian state to please ukrainian nationalists will not pass. Former austrian serfs should seek free lands elsewhere.

OK - so you have interfered to protect your historical right to Ukraine. And your drunk "soldiers" have lost, making yourselves a laughing stock in the process.

So now time to go back with your tails between your legs and back to your sprats and bitter coffee.

Apparently a lot are going slowly mouldy in a hospital in Belarus. I'm glad I don't live downwind of it.

350 more dead orcs since yesterday, bringing the total to well above 26000. The russians managed to kill 2 civilians during their bombardment of Odesa with long range missiles and also killed two housewives in a Kyiv suburb with booby traps they'd deliberately left behind.

A blyatzkrieg...

Now, I'm afraid that's not how things work Velund - and bear in mind I'm Irish. More than half the population of Ireland has relatives in England, Australia, Canada, the USA. That doesn't give us a right to take over those countries. And what about Northern Ireland. It's undeniably Irish but I accept the fact that it's part of the UK until the people of both parts of the island decide otherwise. Your attitude is incredibly arrogant. Russia has no right to govern Ukraine.

They don't want it, nor do we want Dublin or India, nor do Poles want Lviv or Hrodno. Irredentism is a russian obsession. Everyone else, sometimes in difficult but ultimately successful stages, moves on.

Now get your orcs out of Ukraine so we can argue about something else here.

:)

A thought experiment....with Russia in the EU....where national borders become less and less important....and the cooperation on all levels grows...with far reaching integration....territorial conflicts should become less important for Russia too....right?

Would Russians be interested to be part of such a unified Europe? Equals to everybody else, also to Ukrainians?

There was idea of "Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok", but real masters of EU political "elites" was not interested in this project at all - it would be too prosperous and economically strong aglomeration to allow it to be created (as a competitor).

So, decision was made to turn Old Europe to become economic donor of US puppet states that in turn will serve as tool to veto anything that is not good for their overseas masters in Brussels. And, then, to turn ukraine into a stinking wound in the back of Russia, that will create endless cash flow to US military industrial complex. But, something start to happen not as planned.

As long as European elites are incapable of concluding and implementing agreements and work not for their own people but for external forces, you can't dream of any harmony with Russia.

Russia probably would but not the snake. NATO needs an enemy to justify its existence - even if it's Iran, the country that allegedly posed enough threat to justify moving American military hardware to Poland a while back. That didn't get much traction, hence, let's provoke Russia with that US-funded 2014 "revolution". That worked.

I think that in theory - everybody wants this. Even Putin, until recently, liked to speak of having a dream of a Europe that stretches from Lisbon to Vladivostok. In practice it will of course not work.

(1) USA will not allow it. They turned the construction of a single pipeline into a ten year drama show. Imagine what they will do to prevent a Russia+Europe grouping. This would necessarily lower their influence on the Continent, and potentially make the EU unavailable as an ally in a confrontation with China.

(2) All our former "friends" would also veto it. Under "friends" I count specifically Poland, Lithuania, and Romania. I think these three countries would sooner leave the EU than share it with Russia.

(3) Sooner or later, Russia and Russians would get fed up at dancing to the tune of the midget countries making up most of the EU. This I sincerely believe. It's incredible to see the amount of sh!t Germany has to endure to keep the show going, and I doubt Russians can be this patient.

Sorry BB, you will have to wait some time before you can buy yourself a vacation home in Old Prussia and not have to worry about visas.

Now you must be joking. If you want to see Brexit multiplied by about 20, then suggest Russia as a candidate state - speaking of which the European Commission will deliver an opinion on Ukraine's EU application in June.

I don't think it will be Russia as EU candidate. More likely, I see Eastern Germany as Eurasian Economic Union candidate in future. ;)

....well....at least here all sides seem to be in agreement: nope!

Na ja...it was a thought experiment...


as in: EuEu? :)

EAEU or EEU, latin abbreviation not yet established finally.

Their small educated Petersburg elite might like the idea. The vast majority of others do t even know where their next cabbage soup or bottle of meths is coming from, so no.

China and the Middle East might have more influence there soon, anyway.

That might not be the case. Can you really see russia complying with common laws, rules and regulations and accepting that they are on equal terms with Malta or, for that matter, Poland? I don't think so.


You don't get friends by "visiting" them with your army and staying. However, having said that, it was Polish Foreign Affairs minister, Radosław Sikorski, who said that russia should become a NATO member to increase stability and safety in Europe...

tvn24.pl/swiat/sikorski-rosja-powinna-byc-w-nato-ra124386-3579277

As for the EU, one of our lecturers at the university, a Danish guy, told us that the problem is with russia - they want to be an empire and not just one of many equal countries in a democratic alliance like the EU, so they are not interested in membership because that would mean abandoning their imperial dreams. Back then I thought he was exaggerating but everything we've heard from russia ever since (see the official Kremlin ideologue, Dugin) and what we've seen, only confirms what that Danish professor told us.

@Novichok

Well, now the US can argue "You deadbeats better help with China, or we'll leave you one and one with Putin." Some quid pro quo, where Europeans repay the cost of the American nuclear umbrella by signing up for all sorts of random shenanigans elsewhere. If Russia is an EU member, there's no need to make this Faustian bargain of - "we will cut off our own nose and sanction China, so long as you got our asses covered here".

EU elites is on "remote control", so forget about any deviation from prescriptions. When Ukrainian cannon fodder will be depleted, US will fight Russia/China to last Pole and Lithuanian... Germany should be prepared to be a next stage, together with Romania.

Had they said that in January, there would be no war in Ukraine, and 50,000 people would be alive now.


That is not bad from the US pov. As Patton said, let the other mf die for his. BTW, I don't think Patton scores very well in Poland.

I wonder if sanity went out of style in Poland. It sure looks like it's still popular in Hungary.

You forget about 14000 killed by Kiev regime in Donbass in 2014-2022.

That they are not is _entirely_ on Putin and his supporters (comme toi).

Self-defense is a basic right.

There was no rational reason for Russia to invade... there was hubris and bad information.


I think you mispelled a word there.... it's not "Kiev", it's spelled R-u-s-s-i-a.

That's pretty much all Russia can still do.. .kill civilians... terrible degraded position for what could have been a great country.

Why didn't you offer your services to Kremlin before all this mess? They are desperate for such insightfulness.

True enough...

No, I told you - this would be a very difficult sell to Russians. I don't know if Malta is the concern really, but more countries like Greece or Portugal.

Russians have a very high savings rate (life has taught them), and the state constantly runs budget surpluses (liberals attack it for this constantly, arguing it should be doing Chinese level infrastructure investments instead and borrowing heavily). In the current context, this "Fortress Russia" strategy has yielded fruits.

So then one serious concern is that upon accession we never get a Poland-style, 20-year "catch-up" infusion of capital, but are instead asked to be a second Germany and plug other countries' budget holes. Russia is still a comparatively poor country, and underwriting other people's irresponsibility would be political suicide.

That logic is self-defeating. If they are so evil, take it into consideration before you start shooting and turn schools and hospitals into military targets.

That was a very bad idea. Even my cat knows it.

From the Hill:
UN receiving 'credible' information about Ukrainian troops torturing Russian prisoners, official says

Now I know better what the phrase they are no angels means - they being Ukrainians. Based on the reports on American TV, we all thought they were.

Do you realise that the four countries you mentioned have larger population than russia and, apart from Lithuania, relatively large and well equipped armed forces? Taking into account the performance of your army against Ukraine I wouldn't have high hopes of a successful russian attack against East Flank NATO countries. As a matter of fact, if it wasn't for your rusty nukes and the distant possibility that some of them might actually still work, East Flank NATO would wipe the floor with your slanted-eyed rapists easily.


EU funds were, of course, important, but prior to 2004 Poland wasn't doing too bad either, after throwing off the communist yoke. I'd say political, economic and legal stability, combined with traditional Polish resourcefulness, were the main factors in our success.


This might be the case, but still russia has lower GDP per capita and even exports per capita (despite being a huge gas station!) than Poland...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports_per_capita

... high stability that the EU brings and foreign investments connected with it are invaluable. If you can't sell that to your population but can sell dreams of an empire instead... well.

reuters.com/world/europe/biden-says-he-is-worried-putin-does-not-have-way-out-ukraine-war-2022-05-10/

Biden said Putin is a very calculating man and the problem he worries about now is that the Russian leader "doesn't have a way out right now, and I'm trying to figure out what we do about that."

When you have fu*cked up so badly, that even your enemy is trying to help you :-D
Well, haven't Sun Tzu said it first?

If you were honest with yourself you would admit that Ukraine is a magnitude level stronger than any of those countries. Lets cast aside the undisputed fact that entire countries have drained their stockpiles of certain weapon systems to supply them. Let's just look at the starting positions. Ukraine was the westernmost Soviet republic, with the largest stockpiles of weapons which were intended for a quick throw to the English Channel. Even thirty years after independence they have multiples of your number of fighter aircraft, tanks, AFVs, artillery guns, etc.

But they are not using rusty, jammed Soviet weapons - they knew that was all junk and not accurate.

Instead they are using modern weapons with better gps and crucially they are properly trained, disciplined and know what they are fighting for.

Compare that to your pathetic rabble of scared children, drunk officers and unruly Chechens and this is only going to end in an epic humiliation

Like that time you sailed a warship all round the world and the Japanese sunk it in 10 minutes

@cms neuf

No better archivist for Russian military embarrassments than a Pole. Does this keep you warm at night, and put a smile on your face during wistful walks along the beach?

Want to discuss Polish military exploits? Hahahahahahaha. Go put on your hussar wings and charge at nearest doner kebab kiosk.