Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 3

No, Maf, I haven't. You wrote all that - Putin's alleged perception of the future conflict, lack of proper supplies, systematic looting, negative selection, stolen money for bribes, Russian incompetence etc. etc. many times here and I read it. I'm just not sure about the extent of those factors and I'd rather overestimate than underestimate my opponent.


Well, I do hope you guys are right and things are really that obvious, clear and simple. *fingers crossed*

But if this war takes an unexpected turn and Poland ends up on the receiving end (as usual), and nothing is as obvious and clear then, remember who warned you about this first!

Good night.

You are embarrassing yourself by posting bs like this. Sure, Russia has no spies in Ukraine, FSB is just a bunch of teenagers, Putin sits in a dark room with a big white cat on his lap...

Don't do it again.

Russia is "inept" because Russia's enemies are the 0.1% around Z, not Ukrainians. The second reason: Russia does not want to kill civilians. Third, Russia does not want to destroy what Russia would have to rebuild. That makes Dresden-class operation impossible.

Yes. They launched 300+ cruise missiles at just Baghdad, targeting multiple presidential palaces, headquarters of the Mukhabarat intelligence agency, the headquarters of the Republican Guard, and the building of the Ministry of Defense. An explicit aim of the Shock and Awe campaign was to decapitate Iraqi leadership, leaving the military rudderless.

Link to CBS article from 2003 where you can read about this for yourself:
cbsnews.com/news/shock-and-awe-throttles-iraq/


There are dozens of videos of Russian cruise missiles flying into a targeted building's window. I'm sure you remember the strike on the Yavorov training center where dozens of International Legion volunteers were killed. If our weapons were not sufficiently accurate, we have enough of them to saturate the targeted area, guaranteeing destruction. Anyway, what am I doing trying to prove to you that our cruise missiles are accurate, you'll just tell me drunk and lazy Russians didn't know or couldn't properly enter the coordinates of the Ukrainian President's Office.


No they can't. That's why they beg the United States for ATACMS missiles for the HIMARS so they can at least strike 300KM deep, but the US doesn't want to provide them for fear that Ukraine will use them to strike targets in Ukraine. Also, if somehow they did manage this, our nuclear doctrine allows for a strike on Ukraine - since this would threaten the existence of our state. Even Zelensky is not stupid enough to do this.

good strategy.... to be clear I don't underestimate the ability of russia to perpetrate atrocities (I'm still halfway expecting them to use nukes) but the country looks like a dump and is run like a dump.... competence just isn't their thing.

and I didn't write any of that stuff first, it was from people who'd actually studied russia for years (or russians themselves).

Go to Appalachia and Democrat cities and post it again. Some places look like Warsaw in 1945.
Besides, that's Russia's problem. Don't like what they have? Stay where you are.

if Russia doesn't want to kill civilians they should refrain from firing their rockets at Kharkiv - would probably help a lot

Russia never killed a single civilian. Those dead bodies are called "collateral damage". Straight from the Pentagon's Wars Are Good manual.

well, for once look up Bucha massacre - secondly Russians don't advance on Kharkiv (they withdrew from around Kharkiv months ago) they are just shelling it with rockets God only knows for what sake (maybe they just want to punish the city) - you either don't know any better or you turn a blind eye to reports of Russian cruelty and barbarism

I think he gets off on it... people who support russia are often full of unexpressed rage (also see dirk)

How do you know Russians did Bucha?

What evidence (RT doesn't count) do you have that they didn't?

first of all why would Ukrainians kill their own people - secondly there was even footage captured of Russians leading people for execution (the same people were then found shot dead) - (Bucha was occupied by Russian for a couple of weeks)

That post tells me that you didn't spend one day in the US while sober. You see, in the US, the burden of proof belongs to the claimant. Maybe in Poland things are different.

Secondly, you can't prove the negative unless you have an iron-clad alibi - like being locked up in prison. Duh!
Good Lord, why do I have to teach idiots something so basic, over and over...

I will skip my usual sarcasm because you are a nice guy.
To answer your question...Because the propaganda benefits far outweigh the losses. It's not like Ukrainians just came down to Earth straight from Heaven as angels of mercy and good manners.

maybe it is normal to not be able to see one's own bias, Novichok - but I'll try to explain that to you: you resort to conspiracy theories when it comes to Ukrainians, but give a wide margin of the benefit of doubt to Russians

going back to my previous post: it is worth mentioning that there are reports by ordinary Ukrainians who survived in Bucha of the Russian crimes

hope you come to your senses soon, Novichok or at least stop investing yourself in the defence of the Russia and its military

This is true.
And I am sure that Ukrainians have lied, fed us some propaganda and done some terrible things.
But Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way round.
To defend Russian actions is just plain stupid.
They tried this in 1920 and failed, thanks to the Poles.
They tried again in 1945 and succeeded, largely due to a weak and worn out west.
They lost it all in 1989/1990.....and now they are trying again.
They have to be stopped in Ukraine.
Otherwise the Baltic States and Poland will be next and then the rest of Eastern Europe.

I really don't understand this leap in logic. Why are we supposed to invade the rest of Eastern Europe? For what gain? Kiev is the mother of Russian cities, and Ukraine is where the Russian state was founded. Nothing else in Eastern Europe is anywhere close to being as important to us. It's like saying - Serbia will take over Kosovo, and then the rest of former Yugoslavia if it's not stopped - without giving any emphasis to the fact that Kosovo is viewed by many Serbians as the heartland of their country, while they can't stand the idea of living in the same country as Croats.

You tell me!
You are Russian.
Russians have tried this over and over again.
Why?


An absolute lie.
Russia was founded by Ukrainians who moved to Russia and formed a new state.
Much like Brits who moved to America and formed a new state.
Your Russian claim for Ukraine is like America saying that England should be theirs.....
Just ridiculous!!!

That's my normal reaction to the lies coming from the West with the biggest liar being the US government. A never-ending stream of lies about everything. You name a subject and it's nothing but lies - from why we had all these damn wars to inflation and employment stats.

In fact, Western democracies are based on lies starting with the word "democracy". That's why nobody here even tried to define it. "We can vote". No sh*it. I voted in Poland when I turned 18, too.

In this thread, things are simple: Russia is evil. West is wonderful. Z is a hero. Plus incidents in support of these axioms - now granted the status of new religion similar to global warming. Russia's evil is now in the same category. Never to be questioned or you are something with two Ss.

Bottom line: if the US and metoos had reasons to bomb and kill, Russia had a reason to bomb and kill. Except better because of the distance.

BTW, if you take the body count since 1946, the USSR and now Russia will look like a bunch of well-behaving boy scouts. So, if you want me to, I will add up all the deaths the West caused vs what Russia did. Those numbers will not even be close.


Poor Bobko...Trying to be logical...Good luck with that...
Man, I feel your pain.

Irrelevent.
You are not comparing like with like and you know it.
Russia is a weak nation and irrelevant compared to the USA.

@Miloslaw

Ah I see! America is allowed to kill more people on account of its larger GDP. Somebody should tell China it has a large credit of murdering it can draw on.

You really are not as bright as you like to make out that you are.

Russia, given the means and opportunity, would kill far more people than the USA.
But they are just useless, ignorant, technically poorly advanced and completely disorganised.
As the war in Ukraine has proved.
Sure, Russians are capable of inhumane brutality, always have been, always will be, but they are very poor at logistics,organisation and motivation.
Which is why any attempt by them to threaten the west will fail.

This may be true. You on the other hand, have a poor appreciation of how blinded by hate you are. Not quite at PolAmKrakow levels, but close to it. This is no problem for me, and actually quite entertaining, but it is a severe limiting factor to you being able to grasp new information and make sense of it.

Not so.
My dad's family were taken from their home in Poland in cattle trucks.to a camp in Siberia by Russian invaders.
My grandmother died there from the extreme cold.
My dad's older.sister, my aunt, never had a bad word to say about ordinary Russian people..She even learnt Russian.
But she would be prepared to kill any Russian in authority.
The problem is not Russians.
But the fact that Russians seem happy to be ruled by autocrats,tsars and dictators.
Russians need to grow a spine......like the Chinese, they are weak people.

Very simple. Each empire has to gain new territory to survive. The Roman Empire stopped its conquest at some point and soon collapsed. The same with RuSSian Empire. If RuSSists stop their conquest and live in peace, soon the society will demand a better standard of life, like in civilised parts of the world. Attaining such a standard is impossible in RuSSia so to avoid ferment and internal disturbances, Kremlin bandits can pacify hungry people with new conquests.

Do you remember RuSSian joy at capturing Crimea?? Putin was supported by 80% then.
It is similar now. 70%-80% RuSSians support the war.

That was a disgusting thing to say to the nicest guy on PF.


Would, should, could is bs, They didn't. The US and the "allies" DID. Yes, I know, they killed and bombed for "democracy". Democratic kills are good.


Different times, different people. Today, Russians are entitled to the same treatment as Germans who didn't gas or shot anyone. What the Soviets did to Poles is child's play compared to the Germans. What would that ratio be? 1000:1?

Don't ask us, ask Oleg Morozov - a serious Russian politician - who claims that Poland is next in line to be denazified. Or better still, ask one of the 85% of Russians who named Poland as the next special operation target. I think Milo is right here - given the means and opportunity, Russia would invade Central Europe. Of course, NATO is a serious deterring factor but what if Kashub1410 is right and there has been some sort of deal between the White House and Kremlin? What if Taiwan is invaded and the US are not willing to fight on two fronts? What if Germany still hasn't abandoned plans to dominate Europe with their economic alliance with Russia? We can ask many such questions and this war can still take a nasty and unexpected turn, so people who are considering the possibility of further Russian invasions are not as crazy as they may sound.


Today, Germany are not invading neighboring countries. And Russians did get the same treatment - the entire EU traded with them, there were Pushkin Institute branches conducting Russian language exams all over Europe, Kaliningrad had visa-free movement with Poland etc. etc. - before they started their neo-imperial conquest.


For an engineer (a former one but still) your relation with mathematics is a rather loose one, isn't it?
In the so-called "Polish Operation" genocide alone, more than 100,000 Poles died...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD

... if we only count this, Germans would have to murder 100,000,000 Poles according to your ratio. They weren't quite as efficient.

Besides, when comparing German genocide on Poles to the Russian one we have to take one more factor into account. Russian and Poles are Slavic people, so Russians committing genocide on Poles can be compared to Germany ethnically cleansing Austrians or Sweden systematically murdering hundreds of thousands of Danes or Norwegians. That makes it even worse (if it's possible!).

@Miloslaw
Indeed, having my family member escaping
train to Soviet prison camp, estate looted and taken away and driven from it.

I know fairly well what to expect from Russian authorities. Not interested in experiencing it myself after working and toiling through life just to lose what I've earned, nor losing my dog either.

Gotta keep em Russian authorities as far as possible.

sorry for your Oedipus complex but Kyiv still stands as the proud capital of Ukraine.


What proof do you have that Ukrainians killed civilians in Bucha?

Bobi is simply falling for Dugin's drivel (as so many Russians are)...

"We fight to restore our historical Kievan cradle - from the power of globalists into the power of the Empire of Spirit. Kiev is the beginning of our history and it means it will be its end." (Мы ведем борьбу за возвращение нашей исторической Киевской колыбели - из-под власти глобалистов под власть Империи Духа. Киев начало нашей истории. А значит, и ее конец.)

...as for Ukraine - they don't even consider it a country - it doesn't exist for them:

"Ukraine doesn't exist. It will become a part of our new empire. Only there, in the philosophical empire of developed spirit, empire of meanings, it will be reborn and will thrive. At the moment... what do you expect from a terrorist regime with a comedian at helm? It's a misunderstanding, although the fate made Ukraine to be the battlefield of fundamental, metaphysical struggle. I think geography was the decisive factor". (Спросят, а причем тут Украина? Вообще не причем. Ее нет. Но она будет в составе нашей новой Империи. Только там в философском Царстве развернувшегося Духа, в Империи смыслов она возродится, расцветет. А пока -- ну что мы хотим от террористического режима, возглавляемого комиком... Это недоразумение. Но самой Украине суждено было стать театром фундаментальной метафизической схватки. Я думаю, все дело в географии.)

t.me/russica2/47857

If you think you can survive such a dose of Russian imperial drivel, here's parts 1 and 2 but be warned - it's bad...

t.me/russica2/47855 ... t.me/russica2/47856

In a normal country Dugin would be at the moment receiving his daily dose of electro-shocks in a mental institution. In Russia he is cherished as somewhat of an official state philosopher. Scary stuff.